You keep saying that, but then your other posts suggest otherwise.
Also I just checked and you donât even have the double agent achievement.
The Night Elves are getting both this expansion. The Forsaken are getting neither, as I remind you, Danuser himself has stated.
Okay? The Alliance regularly gets new lands and story focus. The only time the Horde gets either is when itâs the villain. To then add insult to villainy, it almost never keeps its gains (EG: Arathi, Ashenvale, Darkshore)
But it has on several, and even verbally announced a few of them, such as thanking us for the unified voice in the Shoulders off for Saurfang movement.
As in theyâll unphase it and say itâs canonically fixed? I mean, were I a betting man, thatâs where my money would go. But they made a brand new wall for Lordaeron in the event, so who knows?
Well I mean you guys got an entire Elune afterlife wherein your gods were retconned to go to when they reincarnate. Tyrande is undeniably going to be a big focus character (and has even been stated to be so by Blizzard.)
Really? I donât see Elune anywhere. Whereâs the Elune afterlife?
The first and only appearance of night elves has our leader unstable with rage, and a couple of night elf souls are forever obliterated, the rest escape hell to go to Ardenweald where their anima will be used to fuel some random wild God.
I donât know where Elune herself is, just that one of her chosen avatar plainly states that Ardenweald is where those who worship Elune are sent.
Faranoth, letâs not pretend that we donât know how that storyline ends, with Tyrande keeping some of that Goddess power (as if she needed anymore) and spreading it around night elven NPCs to make them more powerful, too.
So itâs not an Elune afterlife? Ok. Night elves die to go to random nature realm with no Elune.
Letâs not pretend we know what blizzard has in plan.
More likely she gives up power because âvengeance is badâ to save everything else but night elves in random faerie nature realm.
Great, take that up with him. But returning the Undercity to the Forsaken accomplishes literally nothing of value, except eliminating any potential for growth due to what theyâve been through. If you want the Forsaken to suffer that, well then there you go; thatâs your wish, not mine.
Personally, Iâd love for the Forsaken to finally get decent development now that Sylvanas is out of the picture; the developersâ obsession with focusing all the spotlight time on her starved other Forsaken characters of opportunities for growth.
And I agree that this is a problem. Iâve never stated otherwise.
But hamstringing one faction to balance out the other is a ridiculous practice. How about, instead of you constantly trying to crap on people who play Alliance (not exclusively, either), you advocate for better story treatment for the Horde without demanding someone else suffer as the cost.
I donât go around saying âgod I WISH the Horde/Allianceâs cast would just get wiped out so the Alliance/Horde could get story.â I advocate for separate growth opportunities, where the developers stop dropping huge loads of crap into the expansions and calling it plot.
The heightened focus on âHORDEâ and âALLIANCEâ has shoved the individual races to the backburners - and thatâs not good; painting all races with Red or Blue puts them in terrible situations, like the Kaldorei/Forsaken during BFA.
I meant that we can talk to the Bronze dragon and go back to see it; that was their compromise. We can always go back and visit how it used to be, but how it is now is the new canon version, and it will stay.
I have serious doubts that they will redevelop those two zones at all.
â
And to be very on the nose here, because I think itâs important people here this directly - the biggest issue I have with you (aside from you being pompous and rude to pretty much everyone all the time) is that you seem to always be advocating for one faction to suffer so that the other can benefit. That isnât a positive mindset or beneficial to developing a strong and welcoming community. Everyone deserves their fist pumping moments, and shouldnât be goaded by the company into hating the other faction when horrible things happen to them.
Blizzard has been pitting players against each other, and youâve clearly fallen for it like a fish hooked on bait. Be mindful of the rhetoric you spew; the MHP nonsense, constantly treating players who have Alliance characters on their posts like crap - that makes you come off as a fool, because you genuinely and truly donât know who youâre talking to.
Arbiter sends mortals who served nature to Ardenweald
Elune seems tied to the promulgation of Druidry across all worlds since so far the only two planets with confirmed âdruidsâ have Elune worship
My personal theory speculation is that the Winter Queen is Eluneâs daughter like Cenarius is her son, and she was kidnapped from the Dream by Zovaal or something (Persephone myth).
Ainât random, Night Warrior is inherently tied to Ardenweald.
Winter Queen is gonna mass rez nelves and restore Teldrassil as a thank you, Iâm telling you
Speculation will remain such until it happens. We speculated a lot about BfA⌠how did that turn out? How about Legion?
Ah yes, the random connection when previously night elves were supposed to be with Elune and not some strange creature they never knew in life, now implied to have a distant connection to Elune.
Okay. Itâs a night elven afterlife which is tied to Elune, bears night elven world trees, and saves the night elven dragon, wherein the night elven faerie queen besmirches and the troll loa whilst reminding the playerbase that the petty, savage trolls and their gods are beneath night elves and their gods.
Itâs on the private test realm, is it not?
Sheâs absolutely keeping some of it, but I wonât pull the carpet out from under you. Theyâre probably going to say vengeance bad.
I fully disagree. Taking Tirisfal back and building something new out of it would show tremendous growth.
I absolutely agree. For 15 years the Forsakenâs only story is âWe praise Sylvanas.â
itâs time for that to change and for them to actually have characters.
Is⌠is this a strawman? The heart of my argument is that Iâm glad that the playerbase is getting both of their capitals back. You compared losing Theramore to losing a capital city.
Yeah Iâd bet on that. Iâm hoping theyâll surprise us and make Lordaeron City instead of the Undercity, but 2004 Undercity is very likely here to stay.
I donât make the lore, but your statement that Ardenweald has nothing to do with Elune inherently is false given the new âdevelopmentâ of the Night Warrior and where they end up upon death.
âI donât see Elune anywhereâ is a bad argument because an avatar of Eluneâs power always ends up in Ardenweald, and there presumably will be a reason for that.
Given Ardenweald is tied to and created by the Winter Queen, it means there is a relationship between Elune, the Night Warrior power, and the Winter Queen.
So, instead of carving out a new future for themselves, they should scurry back to the kingdom that was liberated under Sylvanas, which was largely associated with Sylvanas, but then used and wasted like the âarrows in her quiverâ that the Forsaken and everyone else was? The Forsaken can do better, and they deserve something new and more meaningful.
The Kaldorei too; they have so much of their ancient culture resurfacing as of late. This would be an ideal opportunity for the Night Elves to explore Eldreâthalas, or other ruins elsewhere. Nordrassil, too.
Glad we agree on that.
I stated that Blizzard doesnât reverse course based on players being angry. Players were furious about Theramore, and yet itâs still a ruined wasteland.
Old Blizz is Old Blizz. Nu Blizz is Nu Blizz. Nu Blizz reacts. Perhaps in small ways, but weâve seen it happen. The traitor Horde questline where you help Sylvanas was added for people who wanted to remain faithful to her.
The traitor Horde quest line was hot air; nothing of substance.
It made no difference in the end. The loyalists were screwed too, to be fair, and were tossed the whole âplay alongâ crap until Blizzard stated that theyâve been used up and have to support the Horde/Alliance pact going forwards.
Thatâs not Blizz making substantive changes; thatâs them scrambling in a PR battle.
Can you be a bit more specific as to what you did get, just so Iâm clear? Itâs hard to tell where youâre coming from, and Iâm not going to presume your where your loyalties lie with regards to factions or races, if with any.
Even if youâre feigning ignorance in order to take a presumed moral highground, Iâll humor you.
I had no interest in burning Teldrassil. Night Elves ranked lower on my give a hecc list than Draenei did. I certainly had no interest in my entire faction being labeled a villain. I had no interest in watching the Warchief mass murder the Horde and Alliance, then enslave them in undeath. I wanted to challenge her. I could not. I wanted my stand in hero characters to challenge her. They did not until it was too late and she could one shot them and get away.
I got absolutely nothing out of this expansion. But I know that the Alliance did, because I mained Dreadmoore this expansion and I experienced the neverending string of victories they received over the Horde.
I think youâre a bit delusional if you think the Alliance got anything positive out of this expansion. We didnât beat you, we let you get away with even less than what happened in Pandaria. There wasnât even a stern warning.
Land claims, killed leaders, moral victories, literal victories. You removed more Horde territories than the Horde did, and undid everything the Horde did to you after the War of Thorns with the exception of Teldrassil â which you will allegedly be undoing anyway.
::He would look to the entire Horde war campaignâs questchains.::
::He would look to DazarâAlor.::
::He would look to Arathi.::
::He would look to Darkshore.::
::He would look to Ashenvale.::
Surprisingly, I agree with you on this. I was thoroughly disappointed that players werenât given the option to rebuke Sylvanas right then and there. This is one of those issues where gameplay trumps story; they drag it out in order to provide an expansion, even if it doesnât really make sense for everyone.
I got nothing either, and you canât go presuming to know what other players got out of this - regardless of their faction of choice.
BFA tanked my interest in playing Horde, and it also tanked my interest in playing Alliance; I donât want to play on a faction that is seemingly fated to constantly be the villain, nor the faction the is held over the fire to be all forgiving when in fact they should be in open revolt. There has been no meaningful growth for the factions, and itâs old at this point.
That said, you and I clearly have widely different perspectives on victories.
We saw a lot of defeats on prime time for the Alliance this expansion, but almost all the victories were off screen; that deals a heavy hit to morale.
There were only two visible âvictoriesâ for Alliance that Iâm aware of; one was Dazarâalor, and the Alliance quite literally went after someone that wasnât in a single Alliance quest during the leveling experience. That was a meaningless victory for the Alliance side, and it didnât even have a positive impact for that faction, since it only drove the Zandalari to the Horde.
The second was the garbage cutscene for Darkshore which looked like an intern put it together in an hour. None of those seem to be of any great value compared to the moral impact of the loses.
Lastly, the Alliance was relegated to being sideshow to the Horde revolution/civil war thing once again at the end of the expansion, and neither of the factions came out of the second SoO with any real triumph.
It was a âsweep it under the rug nowâ sort of moment.
So honestly, Blizzard just needs to get their stuff together and start mapping things out with a bit more pre-thought, because this whole thing felt seat of the pants/pulled out of a hat.
I will say that thereâs a huge issue with this. Players who only engage on one faction do not see those quests, so they donât know theyâre undoing the other factionâs efforts. This model of gameplay design is seriously flawed in that regard.
