Tank challenge is definitelly harder in monk. And the healing challenge is straight up harder than the tank challenge, no question. But yes, bear’s is harder than most of the DPS challenges (mostly due to the size of the Aura), or at least it was before they nerfed it.
Those are some big ranges.
I really dont believe this. data is easy to manipulate, and this really sounds like it is just that.
For me, both bear challenges were quite comparable.
lol.
this was true of the original for some as well.
over 200 for me in legion, over 200 for me now.
all of them? ok sure. seems likely.
To me it seems to be exactly what they told us it would be. I just didn’t have strange preconceived notions.
these are two vastly different numbers.
What should normalized have felt like?
Every person is scaled down to ilvl 50, so it feels quite normalized to me.
tell me the math on how different it was. You saw those stat changes right?
easily eh? so you got some legion gear and just one shot it?
oh there it is. knowledge. understanding. you know, the point of the tower.
it was for me.
lets see about that.
oh, these were randomly dropped so… I guess you just were lucky getting the ones you needed.
Oh, you know, just waiting for over a year since the mage tower came out.
And if you’re admitting to doing them in 7.3, why do you keep bringing up 7.2? you dont know what it was like if that was the case.
lol what?
you waited until a new patch cycle came out, with a stronger tier of gear.
You view that as perfectly fine, but getting some timewalking gear is wrong… which is basically the same thing.
People find guardian druid challenge to be the hardest because a) they never have played the spec ever before, just trying to get the skin . b) dozens of people attempting it for the skin, talking about it.
If you compare guardian druid challenge to holypriest challenge then the guardian one is laughable at best… just no one talks about it because everyone is focussed on that bear.
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Guardian was one of the easiest ones I did going for the mount. Sub 3 minute p1 and extremely strong cds to survive Kruul. Compared to Havoc, all the tank ones were a joke.
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Legion or todays?
That’ll be the end of time walking as we know it. Too much availability burns players out. I would like to expand and increase time walking times, but not like this.
That said tower should definitely be up for longer.
Guardian is probably the easiest out of the tank ones. Moonkin form basically guarantees an easy second phase, and it has the best mitigations for p2. My toughest challenge was learning the abilities and how they work. Once I figured it out it was just a matter of not messing it up and keeping my cool P2.
That was statistics released by blizzard.
So laugh and snark all you want you are clearly full of it.
I don’t know about that one chief. The problem here is that the tower at 7.2 was not very popular. Only the elites really did it, so the people who would struggle didn’t really try or get discouraged. The elites were already flying in tomes first of timewalking already. I pop into a thread ever so often and see some guy say it wasn’t that bad and it took him 30 tries. Week after they’re already getting 36/36 or close to it.
Realistically the image of stats doesn’t tell us anything. Even the average runs doesn’t do it. For example, it says 135k victorious characters, not players. If it took someone 60 runs to clear it on their first char, and then 4 on their second character that’s average of 32. This is not impossible, my unholy took over 90 attempts, my fire mage was 5. That’s an average of 48 runs to do agatha. And since I knew Agatha so well on my other chars, I could probably do agatha on all of them easier, padding that number down further. So lets say hypothetically 90 (unholy) + 5 (fire mage) +5 (outlaw rogue). I am now at average 33 runs to complete Agatha. Probably not a fair statistic to tell an outlaw rogue struggling to complete it, wouldn’t you say?
Think about it mathematically, there were 15.2m attempts, and only 135k wins. If everything was equal that would be an average of ~113 runs per character. But that was not the case, the average is 32. How do you explain this discrepancy? The answer is that the average first run was significantly higher, and subsequent attempts on other characters were far fewer. Since we know they counted characters and not unique players, this is a valid assumption. Of course, I’m also making the assumption they intentionally did it on a spec that also had the same boss they already knew, but I think it’s fair to say you do that. You know the boss, you’re collecting a tough item to show off, you know it’s exclusive, all the stars are aligned for that to work. I did on my unholy/fire mage back in the day, and I did it now first week too.
There’s only one video that I know of that shows the moonkin throughout phase two. And he’s one of the greatest players I’ve seen.
So saying that Guardian Druid One of the easier challenges is a complete bs hot take
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I said (meant) moonkin p1 makes p2 easier. Sorry for the confusion. The DPS output is incredibly high and you end up with fewer infernals. And no it’s not. Guardian isn’t the toughest challenge, but that’s subjective anyways.
Ret is easy with crusader heirloom.
I’m never going to get the holy priest one and I’ve mained holy for years I know how to play it but it’s an overturned dps nightmare with terrible healing. 
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Ahhh ok ok. I misread your post my bad lol
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I should have written better, it’s my bad. I went back and realized my mistake.
And we always trust blizzard at all times.
As i said, numbers are easily misleading. But sure, go ahead and hand wave it away as snarky.
full of what?
we really have no idea where the data is coming from. like when were those images released?
maths aren’t really as simple as people like to think.
It comes from Blizzard, per their twitter account. https://twitter.com/warcraft/status/852647501819650049
But people are reading into it too much and making inferences on very little data. Like I said in my post, the stats don’t tell us anything significant, and may even hinder their own arguments. Heck, look at the number of victorious characters. 135k first week.
Say each player ran an average of 2 chars. That’s 67500 players. Assuming 3,000,000 subs (and I don’t know how many WoW had during legion, just a guess) that’s 2.2% of the playerbase. Seems eerily close to the 1% of elites who can do challenges people are complaining about 
3 chars per player? 1.5% who can do it.
But again, I’m making assumptions here and reality is more difficult. Some could have ran hundreds and quit, and never be counted into statistic, others did it in first try (and we know at least 800 something did). Nothing here supports the claim MT on launch was easier than timewalking MT currently.
no i mean the actual data. 32 average attempts is a derived number from the data.
first week tho.
I have no idea how it is derived. You are correct that’s the problem with this data. It tells us almost nothing on the state of the tower then.
sure, but success percentages may temper the data.
like maybe 100k Druids get it. but if its out of 12 million (random number. prob only out of 1-2 mil considering how bad manual group ques are to fill) then it would be lower than say frost mage with 50k success out of 60k people who attempted it.
another interesting metric to look at would be to know how many wipes each player had. and the average number of wipes before success.
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The one metric that’ll help us solve this issue is average number of runs before clear on first character per account. Give the number per challenge. Give us stats on Legion MT and TW MT. And we have our (first) answer to see which one was harder. We still need to see how many and what kind of players did it too. The stat people are using here was most likely completed by the pros, compare to now which has mass appeal.