Relax RDF will be here

[Paladinout-arugal]

@Assure-bloodsail-buccaneers

Game addiction isn’t a thing really.

maybe for you it is not but this game is for everyone around the world.

@Paladinout-arugal

please do some research on the matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVK4PAwT9fc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4vl0s_l9MY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0M1PuQaE8s

[Morshu-old-blanchy]

@Zantherr-pagle

You literally just said you had 6 other friends you play with.

I didn’t they all quit for the same reason, no RDF.

[Assure-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Yeah but people should deal with their addictions and get help.

[Paladinout-arugal]

can not agree more but some people can not control themselfs is the whole point of every thing i said…
retail for me went the path of video 3 with this tool and onwards because they had the player count to do it.

[Daysgoneby-atiesh]

@Negald-aggramar

I’m probably a bit older than most Classic players

my whole guild is 50 and up in ages… we dont have anything against younger players but we are from the lost age of honorable pvp and non toxic gaming. more and more we are discovering that alot of younger players… NOT ALL, but ALOT…think being toxic and ruining peoples games is fun and cool.

@Axesfiend-bladefist

more people will lean towards using RDF for its convenience

so people who want rdf are to be punished because anti rdf’ers lack the mental fortitude to keep themselves doing it their way and using rdf?

@Axesfiend-bladefist

I feel better if anyone says ty for inv instead of just leaving like that.

substitute “ty for the run” and we agree on this. everyone likes to feel appreciated and most will say gg and ty for the run when using rdf, i always made it a point to do that.

@Axesfiend-bladefist

RDF helped promote anti-social behavior in WoW.

i disagree as my guild in wrath and beyond was built primarily from people i MET in RDF. and that guild still exists in retail today with some of the original members. i stood as best man for a guildies wedding, my sons god parents are from the guild back in the day. ive vacationed with them, i play with some of them in other games to this day 15 years later. it wasnt rdf that contributed to the social withdraw, it was live streaming and teaching people it was fun to be toxic and grief others.

@Axesfiend-bladefist

what’s better, to have a 20 minutes bus ride in silence, or having the same ride but talking to the person sitting next to you?

too many random factors… generally i prefer the silent bus ride… too many weirdos in todays real world. just being a white male in todays culture thats over 40 seems to be a crime to alot of folks. so yeah, i’ll take either the silent bus ride or better yet, i will ride with friends not strangers… which truly is indicative of wows culture. normal folks stick to guilds of friends and it takes alot to break into a group like that.

[Beèfy-faerlina]

This daysgoneby guy acts like he isn’t one of the most toxic people that post on these forums.

Which, by all means - be yourself. Calling other people what you actually embody is hilariously out of touch tho

[Assure-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I don’t know bro maybe.

[Negald-aggramar]

@Paladinout-arugal

well yes it kind of is. look at why people drink for example it is a escape from reality for them. this is why majority play video games for the escape from reality. gambling they think they will hit it big one day and will get that car / item they want when you loot a boss it is a gamble will the item drop.

I think this is too broad a reach. If we were talking about gaming addiction, then that would be different. We’re only talking about one system.

@Paladinout-arugal

i do not mean this in a bad way at all but you are not really a good fit for this version of the game. because you are shy and do not want to talk to others you want to do you and only play with others if you really have to i’m guessing.

You’d be guessing wrong. I enjoy completing things with other people. What I don’t enjoy is spending an hour to get together a group for a dungeon that might take 20 minutes to complete. That process does not provide meaningful social interaction. If you wanted to make the social interaction argument, I’d say you’d be better off removing the stone summoning. Some of the most social interaction I’ve had in groups is reminding people that there’s not summoning stone for VH.

@Paladinout-arugal

that is fine but can you see why this might be a issue for a game that trying to grow and trying to get people to talk to each other and others about the game

I don’t think that’s what Classic is. By and large, most people who are here have played the game before and know what to expect. I’d be willing to bet money that the number of genuinely new players is less than 2%.

@Paladinout-arugal

as i said i mean no offence at all but it just seems logical to focus on the social audience rather then the unsocial ones would it not?

And they did that…in Vanilla and TBC. Like it or not, they started to cater to a different audience in Wrath and beyond. I went into a whole long thing about why that is in a previous post.

@Paladinout-arugal

by not allowing this to form naturally people will just stop doing it naturally

But it’s not forming naturally. You’re advocating for, I don’t want to say “forcing” it, but using negative reinforcement instead of positive reinforcement. Being social should be its own reward. Making friends shouldn’t be something you NEED to do. It should be something you WANT to do.

@Paladinout-arugal

i would say RDF would be more like getting home schooled yes you complete your studies and get what you need/want but there is no opportunity to meet people.

I can see where you’re coming from with this. As I said, I’m willing to concede that RDF does reduce the chance of forming bonds. However, I also believe that the chance of that happening in 2022 is so small that making it smaller doesn’t matter much for most people.

@Paladinout-arugal

same as in college do you feel if you had more time would have meet more people ?

College is kind of special specifically because it’s a bunch people in one place, at roughly the same age, doing roughly the same things. There’s pretty much never another time in your life where this is true. Same thing with high school. I think that might have been true for WoW back in the day. Well, maybe not the age part, but everything else. But it was only able to be that because, well, a lot of the people who were playing it simply didn’t have much else going on outside of the game. It was a bunch of high school or college kids who didn’t mind spending 30+ hours a week in game, and guys in the 20s who didn’t do much more that go to work then come home and play WoW. You talk about being social, part of the attraction of these “virtual world” games was that you could use this avatar to kind of become a different person. Recreate yourself in this virtual world. That’s where the addiction came from for a lot of people. In real life, they were bullied or whatever, but here, they could be Gragnaar, top fury warrior dps that everybody wanted to be like. But it can’t be that anymore. And I think Blizzard realized it as well. That’s why they started moving away from the Vanilla design in Wrath.

[Daysgoneby-atiesh]

@Negald-aggramar

I don’t want to say “forcing” it

but thats exactly the phrase the devs used in the interview… “forced social interaction”

@Negald-aggramar

willing to concede that RDF does reduce the chance of forming bonds.

i have repeatedly disagreed with this because i have life long friends and guildies i got through rdf. i would have NEVER met these people without xrealm rdf. they want social interaction yet they take away a tool that lets you interact with people from all servers and segregate everyone to particular cages(realms)

[Orlha-maladath]

Two more weeks
Trust the plan
The kraken will be unleashed

[Negald-aggramar]

@Daysgoneby-atiesh

my whole guild is 50 and up in ages… we dont have anything against younger players but we are from the lost age of honorable pvp and non toxic gaming. more and more we are discovering that alot of younger players… NOT ALL, but ALOT…think being toxic and ruining peoples games is fun and cool.

I think there’s this thing where younger people don’t think the internet is “real”. Like, the know that there’s another person on the other end, but it’s just not “real” to them for some reason. I’d like a sociologist to do some research about that.

@Daysgoneby-atiesh

but thats exactly the phrase the devs used in the interview… “forced social interaction”

That’s true.

@Daysgoneby-atiesh

i have repeatedly disagreed with this because i have life long friends and guildies i got through rdf.

I didn’t say it was impossible through RDF. I said it reduces the chance.

[Daysgoneby-atiesh]

lol i think i got under someones skin lol got a troll called beefy following me around the forums posting the same personal attack everywhere i go lol. poor guy, i pity his horrible life.

[Paladinout-arugal]

@Negald-aggramar

I think this is too broad a reach. If we were talking about gaming addiction, then that would be different. We’re only talking about one system.

well yes it is to the extreme but was more aimed at getting the point across for this point in the discussion i would like to point out the 3rd and 1st video i posted then look at retail and look at the changes over the years.

@Negald-aggramar

You’d be guessing wrong. I enjoy completing things with other people. What I don’t enjoy is spending an hour to get together a group for a dungeon that might take 20 minutes to complete. That process does not provide meaningful social interaction. If you wanted to make the social interaction argument, I’d say you’d be better off removing the stone summoning. Some of the most social interaction I’ve had in groups is reminding people that there’s not summoning stone for VH.

i do agree with you their but it does provide the opportunity if said person was to take it i know i personally have done dungeons or raids with the same person a few times did i make them my friend no but there is that option if i wanted but this is not a option with wotlk RDF because you can not contact people once you left group. smaller chances of seeing them again too.

@Negald-aggramar

but here, they could be Gragnaar, top fury warrior dps that everybody wanted to be like.

@Negald-aggramar

audience in Wrath and beyond.

this i think thid is key here the game is not the same as it was it can not follow the same path if it does its ultimately doomed to fail.

@Negald-aggramar

Making friends shouldn’t be something you NEED to do. It should be something you WANT to do.

no it should not but a dungeon is not a NEED it is a WANT you want that item or that exp to skip over that zone you do not NEED that item you can quest or mob grind if we are talking more specifically to the levels of 50-60

@Negald-aggramar

You talk about being social, part of the attraction of these “virtual world” games was that you could use this avatar to kind of become a different person.

exactly the best place do this is in the game because you are gonna find like minded people vs now your older i would guess it is harder to find these type of people.

[Malphaes-grobbulus]

Id be willing to bet that if RDF does get released people will be unhappy they still have to sit in a 40min que as a dps and then start to ask for dungeons to be completable by 5 people regardless of role

[Redrum-grobbulus]

@Littlerascal-area-52

The sweat lords will have the content on farm mode in 2 weeks.

Casuals will have Ulduar on farm in 2 weeks rofl

[Thecarebear-maladath]

"but nobody will love me if they arent forced to love me "
hahaha thats the logic of anti-RDF people

[Assure-bloodsail-buccaneers]

That why blizzard should have tank and healer bots so DPS can play.

[Axesfiend-bladefist]

@Negald-aggramar

So, you’re saying that people will use it even if they think it’s bad? That even if they believe it ruined the game, they’ll still use it? Do you think that maybe people are aware of the downsides, but they simply feel like those are outweighed by the upsides?

I agree on this. The whole “if you don’t like it don’t use it” argument is based on the anti RDF assertion that they represent the large majority of players. Something that I don’t think is true.

I agree on this. The whole “if you don’t like it don’t use it” argument is based on the anti RDF assertion that they represent the large majority of players. Something that I don’t think is true.

It has nothing to do with what the majority want or awareness: it is convenient. Cars are convenient, even though they pollute the environment and are high-maintenance; plastic is convenient, nuclear energy, microwaves, and the list goes on and on. Also, if RDF goes cross-realm, every server will have a reduced group of players to from groups from, they will be forced to use RDF at some point. It’s like saying “have a slice of pizza now” vs “go make a healthier salad.” People like to present it as a choice, but it really isn’t the case, no matter how you want to conceal or present it. It’s been said multiple times and explained in different ways, but pro-RDF don’t want to admit it.

People are willing to forgo intrinsic value and the social aspect just for a more immediate reward with less effort, even though it promotes and bolsters toxicity of an already toxic community.

That little bit of socialization doesn’t provide tangible benefits for the player. RDF does. The importance of that socialization is based on the perception of the people engaging in it.

Neuroscience might disagree here, so does sociology and psychology. Read documents and articles about dopamine and social interactions; although most articles promote face-to-face interactions, every social interaction counts. Just because they are intrinsic or not tangible, doesn’t mean the benefits aren’t there. And actually, that’s part of the problem, they aren’t tangible, that’s why I say that convenient doesn’t necessarily mean beneficial.

RDF does provide benefits for the player short-term, but not for the community long-term. If you want to improve a community, you have to have them interact with each other, not just putting them there together with zero incentive to talk. It’s like using the public transportation, there are a lot of people there, but they don’t need to talk to each other.

you’re still ignoring the change in online gaming culture that has happened over the last decade and a half

I’m not, and I don’t like what it has done to socialization. People give more importance to the in-game rewards that will vanish once the game is over or servers are down; people tend to last longer than that, that’s why fostering communication in a community will always have better long-term results. Call me a fool if you want, but I want to be part of a change that needs to be done in the online gaming culture.

I feel like a lot of people now don’t have to specifically because so much is done on the internet or through text now.

I feel awful when two people in the same room text each other.

What I’m saying though is, the last three years of Classic and TBC haven’t undone that damage if that’s the case.

People have played longer with RDF or whatever they have in retail than not, that’s why they are so resistant to let that go. I can’t really blame them for that though. I suspect the current situation is a result of what happened 13 years ago.

Maybe leading a raid group, but not forming a dungeon.

This is more evident when something goes wrong in a run. Most runs go without trouble, but people rather quit a run rather than solve the situation at hand.

You need social skills and leadership to lead a raid, no doubt, but dungeons require a different approach, which shouldn’t be underestimated, because of their frequency and the interaction with ‘strangers.’

Edit: If you can provide link to studies that show people will make a choice for themselves that’s negative, even with the benefit of hindsight, I’ll read them.

I’ve been reading articles and watching videos on YouTube about the effort-reward effect, the Pygmalion effect, the path of least resistance (psychologically speaking, not spiritually), what dopamine does to our brainds and how social interactions stimulate that, the importance and benefits of social interactions, and more.

And also, I think I’ve never said that we’ll choose the negative choice over a positive one, but the brain is wired to choose the one with less effort over the most beneficial one. Yes, you can exit that loop by analyzing the situation, but we can’t assume that everyone will analyze RDF the moment they want to run a dungeon.

https://simplicable.com/new/path-of-least-resistance

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170221101016.htm

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/dont-delay/201103/hierarchy-excuses- the-pathetic-path-least-resistance

Just to show a few, but I’ve read much more.

Edit: no clue why it is formatting the links in such a weird manner.

[Assure-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Anti RDF isn’t real they are just trolling.

As soon as the mention Reddit you know they are trolls.

[Maxium-grobbulus]

@Negald-aggramar

Do you have a link?

twitter.com

@

@redtuzk @TheWindstalker We’re always open to feedback, but I doubt we’ll change our mind on automatic dungeon finder. I know its contentious, but there are enough people cheering that I think we’re making the right call. We want players who don’t want it to have a place where they can play with out it.