This is cap and i will die on this hill.
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Shadowstep is clunky, and there’s the inherent risk of “Oops, shadow-stepped a moving mob on stairs, now I dc’d”, or “Shadowstepped a player as they jumped off a bridge/arena element, DC’d and insta lost”
Hook is at least thematically neat. The big “meh” of grappling hook is the “No path available”. If my character can stand there, I should be able to Bat-Man Outlaw my way there.
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and I’m really sick and tired of people not comprehending that outlaw is completely button bloated and needs pruning.
In my many years of WoW i have never DCed from a shadowstep, no matter the content.
The only downside with shadowstep is the need for a target, but imo thats completely offset by the ability to teleport in the vast majority of situations.
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Maybe i am completely wrong here as i’ve only looked up the description of the mentioned talents/skills on WoWhead. But Fan the Hammer seems like it is just a renamed version of Blunderbuss. Both proc from the bonus attack of SS (Sinister Strike/Saber Slash). And both fires several additional bullets.
Greenskin’s Wickers are the legendary bracers from Legion/SL. Which buffed Pistol Shot after using Between the Eyes.
Would changing the proc from SS to Eviscerate really make that much of a difference? Or are you saying that Eviscerate should automatically cast Pistol Shot?
The best part is they continuously break the rogue class from any quality of life things or things that make the class somewhat functional, and also leave out of the patch notes when they completely remove some things (like how they quietly removed water walking for sub and even now, has never said a word about it)
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Shadowstep recquires a target and changes your PoV (goddamit how many times i tele’d and had the camera all messed up because i was beneath some giant boss or something), meanwhile you have complete control on where you hook. I will die on this hill too.
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Shadowstep is one of the true high-powered skillshots in the game, and it can sometimes allow you to cheese mechanics that are otherwise lost to other classes. The way that bosses attacking you from the air off a ledge typically have a fixed landing point, for example. Shadowstep was invaluable for EotJ in 9.1.
The only meaningful caveat of the ability is that we need to talent in wildly disproportionate ways to get both charges, and it usually means carving away damage in a way other specs - ironically, those of more role-immobile, off-damage classes - typically don’t. Not to imply that we should have this, but to actually have the god-tier mobility (survivability, utility, etc.) that most of the community claims we have, we’d need way more baselined.
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Yeah. I always love in the pvp community when people start rattling off a long list of things that make rogue mobility broken before realizing that 1. We can’t afford the talent points to get those things and 2. Some of that stuff either doesn’t even exist anymore or their information isn’t even correct.
Just recently I saw someone on the arena forums going on about how outlaw has two grappling hooks (we don’t), freedom sprint (nope, that was pruned in 10.1), 30% base movement speed (split into two talent points that we can’t afford to take), and 1 minute CD sprint (can’t afford to take that either).
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You actually needn’t look further than the popular community overstatements about our cheat death to understand how little people know about our survivability/mobility kit, what we need to eliminate to enjoy its full potential, and what actually happens when we used our ability.
The example of our CD: most people assume it’s a gamebreaking, I-Win, cheat-to-full kind of talent. In reality, it registers the fatal attack, brings us to 7% instead of dead, and gives us a major DR for, uh, only three seconds…? You’re still near death, you can still be killed if your healer isn’t fast enough, rogues die in their post-cheat DR every day of the week.
Dratnos actually had such a reassuring, validating mention in the recent TF. I think Tettles joked something about rogue survivability, and Dratnos stepped in to say that rogues are actually “secret squish”
Say it with me: Community Hero.
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I mean it’s true lol we don’t have an actual defensive unless we drop cheat for Elusiveness. Evasion is extremely inconsistent on what it works against and Cloak is 2m obviously. Before the nerfs this week I was literally fighting for my life in P1 of mythic sark while spamming feint, vial, forced to use health pot + stone while still most of the time procing cheat death and having 37% Vers as Outlaw. I would have pretty much double the healing of everybody else with health pots and beating warlocks in healthstone healing when they literally get 30% of everybody elses stones added to their table on logs.
Unless you go Dwarf you have zero agency against bleeds either and just get destroyed by dots in general.
Yeppp. The popular misconception is that we have incredible defensives on top of incredible passive survivability, and that’s just mostly off. I think I even saw our dev make that claim on Discord, and I was like ??? We’re dead without what we have, our safety nets are spider-web thin by comparison to the auto-refills a lot of hybrids end up with, and we’re often burning extra GCDs on our defensives because they cost enough energy to find us starved when we actually go to use them – one GCD to realize we’re OOE, another to actually get the defensive going when we can afford it a second later.
Something I’ve toyed with personally is potentially dropping MNP/Atroph for cheaper vials/feints and iron stomach, but, wouldn’t you know it, you need to ditch 15% movement speed to get there. Hmmmmm…
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Yeah other classes spread propaganda. If we’re throwing darts here, It’s probably safe to say our class tree will be condensed a lot.
If it’s shaped like the mage tree then it will probably be pretty solid. I hope our specialization trees get shaped more like the warrior / paladin trees as a friend pointed out to me in discord.
A crud ton of 1 point nodes like warrior has would be sick and seems likely (arms for reference) where they seem to just build a kit going all the way down.
2.5 weeks or so and we will find out to test on ptr.
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People still have PTSD from TBC Cheat Death. 
Probably talking about PvE and strictly about raiding at that. Where Rogues have the second lowest death percentage of all classes. Only being beat by Paladins.
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I never had that happen.
Having said that, is there a reason why shadowstep isn’t similar to blink? I’d love to use it without the need for a target.
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Haha I know it. Ahhh, to have Resilience again. Actually, I wonder if our cheat duration is similarly increased with Vers. I actually haven’t checked that?
And, re: death stats, totally. If you look at death counts, Rogue is super low in raid. Though, hilariously, the irony there is that our low number also has a ton to do with our low representation in the game currently - in raid, in keys, etc. If you look at our death %, we just a little above average in terms of “survivability”, somewhere around like 20%.
In fact, I think our best engagement numbers as a community are in spaces like these currently, haha Ope!
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nothing beyond giving rogue a higher skill cap
They had that in guild wars 2 with a short bow which was cool. Not sure if they will do that as people scream hOmoGiniZatiOn about anything a rogue does.
Ex: paladins when they almost had the green light on wings of liberty. Warriors freaked out. I wouldn’t care as a rogue, good. Give em that. Instead they brought in mid range paladin which is pretty spooky on its own.
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That’s a good point actually. I don’t think i’ve been in a group with a rogue for literally weeks. No hyperbole either. I have no recollection of doing anything with a rogue(s) lately.
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Tbf, feign death is extremely underrated and under utilised. At least from a PvE stand point, I’d agree our survivability is pretty decent.