statements like this is why these “opinions” will never be taken seriously.
Imagine if you spent more time not sucking in game instead of making excuse for it.
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You’re delusional if you think pressing slice n dice have something to do with skill.
It’s boring, outdated and useless talent in modern days.
An anachronism from old wow, auto attack, that has zero value while costs too much resources and GCD.
They could buff our cp generators instead to be more meaningful like mutilate or ambush. We don’t really need another maintenance buff that does literally nothing.
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Is there any skill behind any keypress/tracking? Or does every spec need a pseudo RTB mechanic to be considered anything more than pressing 12121212?
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if its not skill issue then everyone should have 99% uptime on snd on warcraft logs
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That’s fine in dungeons and raiding, but there is much more to the game. You have to constantly worry about it when running around doing solo stuff. Feels like I’m watching my SnD timer tick down more than playing the game. It offers no challenge… nothing other than a weak small heal that could easily be baked into a stronger leech talent. The haste buff from it in solo content is almost negligible.
You’re trying to argue semantics. Slice does damage. Deal your rotation with slice, then deal your rotation without slice. Subtract. Wallah, there’s your slice damage, now compare to average envenom hit.
Then realize how much damage slice does with just one single keypress(depending on duration of fight of course) You’ll then notice that ramping slice (with just one single global!) can result in millions of damage.
Wow math is hard. Ramping explained.
It’s simple, if you don’t want to play a ramping spec then don’t play assassination.
This is equivalent to asking for Affliction warlocks to no longer rely on dots/ramping mechanics. And yes, slice is in a form, a dot.
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You called it. LMAO!
When doing world content, Envenom will almost always be a better choice than SnD. Sometimes I don’t even bother with Rupture.
Just because you have SnD doesn’t mean you have to use it.
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You’re an idiot.
I’m done with this one.
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Wow you learned the differences between a short encounter and a long one! Congrats! Maybe you can use this learning experience to better understand ramping and dot mechanics!
Thanks for showing me you have zero actual arguing points!
-signed, rogue since 2004 who at one point(when I played hardcore) competed with the top guild on his server!
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Baseline as in not a talent?
Ahh, I think I understand some of the confusion here, and it’s an honest confusion if you only have a basic understanding of rogue specs in '23. I appreciate that.
I think a lot of rogue complaints about SnD boil down to button bloat, but, in the case of Sin at least, the complaints are far more about how the damage actually translates. There was probably a point at which where, as you suggest, Envenoms were meant to absolutely slay by way of SnD’s ramp, but it’s clear that some governing and nerfs were put in place to stop the ability from truly popping off in the way that Raptures have in the past. Envenoms are good damage in single target, but no one’s worried about being globaled by the ability at full power.
There’s also the issue of the ramp. You’re right in thinking that something like Sin should have a ramp to do effective damage in line with its spec theme (ie. ‘Melee Aff’). However, you’re wrong in thinking that two GCDs are the only things in the way of doing full damage. Generally speaking, for SnD to begin translate to the full of its Envenom damage potential in single target, a Sin rogue needs to hit Garrote, activate SnD, hit ER, apply Rupture, hit DM, hit Shiv/Tea, use generator, and then cast Envenom.
By the time you reach that first Envenom - and let’s assume it crits - you’re more or less casting the secondmost powerful Envenom possible, with the topmost arriving during your +40% window following DM. This is also assuming that you’re taking Amp poison, which, in fairness, is 1:1 tied to auto attacks. But your application chance also relies on timely Envenom casts, and those eat Amp stacks. This is also saying nothing of the +poison-specific talents that you aren’t able to take because of this build. It’s just all a little zany, and it’s hard to convincingly argue that process being that much less complex or valid with a single cast of SnD out of the rotation.
Lastly - and this is more a point against nostalgia, maybe neither here nor there - it bears mentioning that SnD originally helped auto-attack damage skyrocket. That isn’t its current purpose. With SnD up, current white damage accounts for something close to a good trinket’s contribution – 6%? 7%? Something like that.
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Slice n Dice had not returned for all the specs until SL. I still find it crazy how some of ypu so vehemently defend something that was readded after years of its removal with 0 requests for it.
Wow, what an achievement.
Lmao he somehow turned people not liking Slice n Dice into people not liking Sin Rogue as a whole… we only use Sin Rogue as the example as its the easiest spec to keep the buff up and it still isnt satisfying to press. Read bruh.
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haha Yeah, you beat me to the mention about SnD coming back in SL. If you read some of the interviews around The Great Unpruning, the TL;DR of its return seemed to have more to do with covenants and new players than anything actually gameplay relevant. Woot.
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Currently only sin has Cut to the Chase.
Yes. I feel it shouldnt even take up space as a talent. We could have better things.
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Meanwhile, Improved Poisons and Fatal Concoction are just out here gathering a thumb’s height of dust all expansion.
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I appreciate your posting style and your will to explain mechanics. I know of what you are explaining and the interactions with amp poison. I mostly was using laymans terms for having to have rupture and slice (2) up before going into your envenom rotation regardless of cd useage.Mostly a typo in the heat of the moment because it’s much more than 2 globals until your ramped and I can see how other players might conceive that as myself being uninformed. I will say I forgot to mention shiv, yes it’s part of the ramp especially considering GCD; the long upkeeps were mostly on my mind. Yes slice used to pump autos to the 12 to 14% range of overall and it is no longer the case; Also haste/slice generated a lot of extra energy over time which contributed to the pve side more than the pvp side. Just wanted to throw that out for others who didn’t know/remember.
Thank you for being kind and informative.
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Out of curiosity, if you were to change Slice and Dice, what would you do to it?
Personally, I’ve wondered if scalability is one of its issues. It’s currently a 50% flat attack speed increase across the board, no matter what. What if, instead, the increase scaled with Haste? And why doesn’t the increase scale with Haste, exactly? And what if the amount of combo points spent on the ability affected something other than duration – could this be a way to help solve Sin’s iffy timings? What if more combo points meant a larger % increase over a shorter duration? Cut to the Chase would suddenly have a vastly different application, no?
/shrug
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just remove it, it adds nothing other than annoying maintenance to pad auto attack damage. they only brought it back because they were looking for things from classic to add back into retail and couldn’t rub their two brain cells together to come up with something more interesting.
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