Water elementals are not the World Soul of Azeroth. In fact, the elements of Azeroth are generally mean and often times corrupted or driven mad. So this is incorrect.
Given that still, A single instance of morally ambiguous use of magic is not the same as the long-term institutionalized slavery the Horde practices.
You’re really reaching for it, so I should give you some credit. But its going to get sad eventually.
#MoistLivesMatter
The Elements are only chaotic and destructive because of all the Spirit energy Azeroth hogs to herself. So who’s the real bad guy here?
You leave Azeroth alone… She’s a growing little girl and a perfect little planet-sized cinnamon roll. We must protect her D=
I’m just going to give this one to you cuz I’m not a statistics major and admittedly don’t really know how to come up with a decent argument to that.
See ya next time we debate
Nothing said he could not pass without the alliance army intercepting, said it would take more time, and they would gather reinforcements, thats why he ask for amani help for a different route.
Various alliance races and a demigod empowered guy vs Garry and some token races
that would be nonsense, its not like the horde have no mages.
he had krakens to help him out.
it would kill more civilians than soldiers,horde armies were scattered around the world in different fronts.
Ignoring Zerde for a moment, this counterargument is gobsmackingly ridiculous if you’re serious. What, do you think the krakens were just gonna pluck Garrosh out of the water before he drowns and gently set him on a nice island beach somewhere?
It’ll be like a scene from Billy and Mandy, Garrosh will survive underwater by breathing his own farts.
By the time they were planning on attacking Capital City they already had most of the amani helping them. Sans help from the Dark Portal there was no more reinforcements! Also, the Alliance was routing the Horde thoughout Quel’thalas and the highlands at the time!
Funny considering you have no qualms about saying Garrosh would survive simply because he had a krakens. But I digress, at best they had Tyrande fighting. Malfurion was still being his relatively neutral and useless self at the time.
Sort of allowing Garrosh to breath underwater, Krakens would not have helped!
The Horde’s mages couldn’t stop Jaina in the Shattering. There was nothing to suggest they could do anything to stop her if she had gone to the Vault and taken the Focusing Iris and finally wiped out the Horde.
Ok, in our theoretical “Jaina unleashes the tidal wave scenario” Which of the two are you talking about? If we are talking about doing it during “Tides of War” where the Alliance navy was planning on attacking Ogrimmar, then yes it would have wiped out the Horde army as well! As I mentioned most of the Horde forces post Theramore was at Ogrimmar celebrating their “victory”.
If we are talking about using the tidal wave AFTER the Kirin Tor joins the Alliance, it would still mean that the greatest production facility of the Horde would be wiped out in an instance. Hell, if Jaina was being particularly aggressive, maybe she could even send some of that tidal wave against Bildgewater and drown them too(and such a scenario would mean the Alliance would remain untouched)
Why not? he tame then for things like this, he also had shamans with him
and in the end the amani left, the horde was fractured and was the only reason the alliance could win
Demigod empowered guy was Varian, with the bless of Goldrin
sort of helping him to stay in the surface.
because she had the iris, duh
the arm was not in orgrimmar
Honestly, I think the whole slavery question is one of those cases where we are probably giving the devs more credit for a consistent and well-planned world than they deserve.
I think that at some points in the past, we’ve had content creators who think there should be slaves in the game–because it’s “realistic,” because it’s metal, because it’s gritty, because it’s something the WC2 Horde would have done and they love WC2, or for any number of other reasons. I think those creators did not have strong oversight and so were able to populate zones however they liked. But I also think they were in the minority and that the people responsible for shaping the overall narrative either ignored them or genuinely were not aware of the slavery references until it was too late and they were already in the game.
It’s all just speculation, but it’s my best guess as to why we have these scattered minor examples in the game that aren’t acknowledged by the larger narrative.
ETA: This doesn’t explain Varian, of course. That is part of the larger narrative. But it feels like someone just came up with the idea “Let’s give him the same backstory as Thrall, just with the sides reversed!” and left others to try to figure out how that would actually happen.
I look forwards to Chronicles 4 updating us that Thrall and Vol’jin personally ran the Orgrimmar slave market, and ordered Varian kidnapped and enslaved.
Cause they’re not friggin’ water dogs, they’re eldritch abominations who probably took mountains of resources to tame. Shamans or no, he didn’t tame them for rescue - he just corralled them briefly to unleash them on the Alliance. Plus, had the wave hit, he probably wouldn’t have been near his krakens - which at the time of the wave, I’m sure he no longer had under his control. The chances of one plucking him away from death are basically zero.
We can bring this argument on pretty much 95% of the topics discussed on this part of the fórums, sadly.
they still obey, regardless what they are
the shamas are there to help him not to drown
you are assuming a lot of things here, not being near the krakens, they would not obey and the chances of being rescued “basically zero”
when in fact, he could survived, with the krakens, or with the shamans pretty easily.
Not really. They were situationally controlled and tossed at the Alliance. The chances to get a Kraken trained to reach down, pluck a SINGLE orc from a tidal wave in a destroyed city, and rescue him without snapping his spine/eating him are basically next to none.
Given the magnitude of the wave Jaina was about to unleash on Orgrimmar, I doubt the shamans would have been able to do THAT much against it.
I’m assuming a lot of things from the book. You’re making up a silly scenario that would have required godlike powers (not Jaina’s) and the stars aligning.
What i can add regarding your ToW discussion is the same thing i say 100 posts back. Why having to resort in arguing on bad faith or with extreme bias.
yes rly, its show in the book that even angry about their slaves, they could do nothing about and just obey.
the chances of a controlled kraken receive a command to save The orc is high
except they were not in orgrimmar, they obvious would not control the wave, but they could control the necessary to not die
nop, i making up a possible scenario, shamans could help, the krakens could help.
Yeah, obey as in “attack that keep” which is a very general instruction. Not “very gently pick up that orc from harm.” Which, I’m not even sure how one would relay that instruction.
The krakens don’t give a damn about The orc.
Unlikely, to be honest. Only way to not die to the wave would probably be to not be in the city when it happened. Not magical friend squid giving you a hand.
Very silly scenario.
Jaina doesn’t need the Focusing Iris to be stronger than most Gods, she defeated the entire Horde solo at UC and Daz just fine without it.
they still obeyed, they could just attack the horde, and they didn’t, this mena they are being totally controlled
they are not generic bests, they are, like you said, eldritch horrors, and can understand the order, and since they are controlled and could do nothing, they would obey.
nop, but “the” orc is easily recognize, thats the point.
not unlikely thrall alone could stop the wave for a bit, why the shamans would not control the necessary to not drown?
Like its showed in war crimes, in a alternate reality were she succeed in drowning orgrimmar, a full open war start, and Varian, Jaina and almost all of the blue dragonflgiht died, they didn’t talk about Garrosh
Regardless, even if he died, Thrall would come back