I think the term, “Indentured Servitude,” applies better than Slavery there.
[Edit]: A better term would be, ‘Unfree Labour.’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfree_labour
Mind you that still has a fairly broad definition, but either way.
“Unfree labour is a generic or collective term for those work relations, especially in modern or early modern history, in which people are employed against their will with the threat of destitution, detention, violence (including death), compulsion, or other forms of extreme hardship to themselves or members of their families.”
There is also a difference between enslaving people based on race, which is what the Horde does, verses indenturing civilians of an occupied region to work, which is legal even by modern standards, according to the Geneva Convention. Granted, that doesn’t make it right, and I am not saying what the Alliance did here is right. I am just saying that it’s not comparable to the institutionalized slavery based on racial and convict discrimination that the Horde practices.
But by modern standards, what the Alliance did to the Pandaren in Jade forest wouldn’t be illegal, but what the Horde does would be.
Indeed, though I feel it’s only fair to point out that in both cases, the commanders were being heavily influenced by the Sha. At least I assume the Horde commander was. The Alliance commander had a journal that pretty much laid out the fact he was being driven insane by the influence of the Sha.
We just have different definitions of slavery, and that’s fine.
I say kidnapping children and forcing them to work in your basement for years would be slavery. You say it would be indentured servitude as long as you don’t own them. Akiyass says it’s fine and legal by her standards.
Not really? Slavery has a definition. I gave it to you. You can’t just make up a definition to suit your paradigm in a conversation. That’s not really how discussion goes.
Really. Try using Wikipedia before using words or terms you don’t understand. Even if you think you understand them, look them up anyways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping
" In criminal law, kidnapping is the unlawful carrying away and confinement of a person against his or her will. Thus, it is a composite crime. It can also be defined as false imprisonment by means of abduction, both of which are separate crimes that when committed simultaneously upon the same person merge as the single crime of kidnapping."
As the Pandaren Children, as well as Kul Tiran children, voluntarily went to work for the two different groups under discussion, it is not abduction, not imprisonment or confinement.
Forced Child Labor is a term you may want to use, but otherwise, you’re just all kinds of off when it comes to defining various crimes.
No, I did NOT say by MY standards. I said by the standards of a Geneva Convention. -I- disagree with the morality of that, personally. But -I- do not write the laws.
And the Alliance didn’t force them to work for years… It was like a day or more…
To add up on my previous post, i’m not making excuses for the Ashvane House, or for the Alliance on that matter. What I was saying is similar to , X orc on Durotan quests owns these people of sentient-races as slaves, but it doesn’t smidge the Horde because he’s not affiliated to it.
Which brings back to my “making excuses” previous post.
But that orc is affliated with the Horde, and there are countless example that show us the Horde, as an institution, practices Slavery, both in Kalimdor and the EK.
I don’t have that quest or that character’s lore in my mind or on a link to say that he is or he isn’t. In accounts of remaining neutral-ish i would say, okay he isn’t Horde affiliated.
I would like some proof, you know? While Bliz is retcon-happy and its writing has been less than stellar lately, there are texts either on quest or on books for it.
Yes, who bought an Alliance POW from the Horde military, as well as worked for Rehgar Earthfury for a time, who made a habit of buying POWs and Criminals of the Horde. Notably Valeera Sanguinar, who was bought from Ogrimmar’s prison after she was arrested for pickpocketing.
Its worth noting that Wowpedia has him listed as affiliated with Ogrimamr (You get Ogrimmar rep for helping him) and he is hostile to Alliance and Friendly to Horde.
It is also worth noting that there are several Forsaken “slavedriver” NPCs as well as one named Forsaken Slave Driver Gerard Abernathy.
Now i remember him, from the comics, thank you.
Which brings me to an interesting issue. How can we tell with certainty that some individuals of core Horde or Alliance races are not (or are no longer) affiliated with its faction?
The first criteria I propose is very simple. If a large bat-shaped object with the Word “Villain” on it has fallen from the sky, then said character is no longer affiliated with its faction. This works for several characters, such as Fandral, Benedictus, the Burning Blade orcs, the Twilight Cult asociates, and so forth. It doesn’t for others though.
Maybe another one would be if the character itself says that he doesn’t belong to the supposed faction? That would kinda work for at least Valeera.
Perhaps i’m just rambling but im certain that just shutting one’s ears and saying “naah he’s not my faction” should not be accepted on this parts.
That’s funny, because Ashvane has never been part of the Alliance, and in fact, is hostile to the Alliance. Other than Spiketooth, who is friendly to Horde, gives Ogrimamr Rep when quests are completed for him, worked for Rehgar Earthfury, who was Thrall’s closest advisor, buys Alliance POWs to be slaves, buys slaves from Ogrimmar’s prison, and trains his slaves to be Gladiators in the Ring of Valor, within Ogrimmar….