I want dual spec now!
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If “wasting gold” is the reason you won’t respec now, then you’ve been repeatedly lying over and over…
Gold is the reason you don’t want to respec. It doesn’t matter how much gold you have. It’s still the reason you won’t respec.
Then don’t play old retro games! Play newer games!
Like, what is the malfunction here? Do you also visit barnyards daily despite hating farm animals? Why do a thing you dislike?
Old games aren’t for everyone. Some people don’t like the contrived, “archaic” systems of older games. That appears to be you. So don’t play them! Let the rest of us who enjoy it, enjoy it.
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No I have the gold, its an old out dated system and I know there is a better option out there. I could walk to the store but I have a car in the drive way and its more efficient for my time management. I choose to drive instead of walking. Sure walking can also have some benefits and both achieve the goal of getting me to the store.
I enjoyed TBC when it was first released and arguing in favor of dual spec in TBC never crossed my mind until the devs said they were open to changes to make the game a better experience. They gave me hope, maybe I should have known better.
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To anybody arguing against dual spec, why do you think dual spec was added in Wotlk?
Do you think it fundamentally changed the way we play the game?
Do you think it made the game worse?
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You enjoyed the parts you enjoy, and you don’t like the parts you don’t like.
The difference between me and you, is I’m not set out to remove/change all the parts I don’t like just because I don’t like them.
Plenty of stuff sucks about the older WoW model. It’s the bad with the good. I accept those parts as part of the experience of emulating a retro game.
Blizzard will make the changes they see fit in accordance with their desire to remain at least relatively faithful and compliant to original TBC.
I would definitely call this a misapplication of expectations.
We don’t have to think, it was made very clear why. Just look up the blue posts around the time it was added.
It 100% does.
No, it did not make WOTLK worse.
If what you mean by this question is will it make TBCC worse, then yes. It will make TBCC less like the product it’s promising to be, and thus, it will make TBCC worse. That’s my expectation. That they will exercise caution with all change considerations to remain as faithful as possible.
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I guess I’m out of the loop here, why was it added?
Please explain. Outside of scheduling my arena queue sessions days in advance with my partner to avoid respec costs, I don’t feel like it changed that much.
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You keep claiming this and that it will have a negative impact on your gameplay. You have not given how it will make the game worse for you. Just that it will allow other people to experience other aspects of the game and somehow that makes it worse for you.
In what way exaclty?
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https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/eu-en/8041844862-talent-dual-spec-qa-with-ghostcrawler/
You’re welcome for the google-fu.
It forces you to make a monetary decision you otherwise wouldn’t need to make at all if dual spec existed. It’s removing an RPG element that many of us would like to remain for other reasons already explained.
It really is just funny at this point, how pro-dualspec people just wake up the next morning and don’t remember a single thing.
It honestly might be more productive to just ask that you go through my post history if you truly are interested in re-visiting all the reasons you’ve already been given, hundreds of times maybe at this point, for how it makes the game “worse” for us.
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Honestly if anything we don’t even need to make a good argument why we want a change. Precedent has been set that as long as we just keep bringing it up they will put it in. (i.e. same faction BGs)
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Haha, I’m sorry but you can’t reverse the circumstance to suit you. You clearly do need a good argument, because otherwise it would already be in the game. You could say the same thing about Death Knights or LFD (both WOTLK features that people like).
There are just some things they won’t add, or require considerable justification to add.
I am sorry that you play a game that you dislike, that can’t be very fun.
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Thank you for the link. From your post:
“Nethaera : Why are we allowing players to dual spec after all this time?
Ghostcrawler : We really felt like this was a great way to increase the flexibility available to players and encourage them to take part in more aspects of the game. To use just one example, some players like to participate in both raids and Arenas, which is awesome behavior that we want to promote. But, there are some talents which are more useful in one part of the game than another. Currently, players have to pay respec costs and go through the process of setting up the desired talent spec and action bars whenever they switch.
The new system makes this a much more logical process, saving on time and cost and allowing players to easily move from one aspect of the game to another.”
Blizz agreed with everybody requesting the addition of dual spec for the reasons we have listed and clearly explained in their post.
Do you disagree with their reasoning and think it should have never been added?
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In WOTLK.
I don’t. It was a pretty good add for when they added it.
The thing you’re ignoring is that the interview is how they felt, during WOTLK, around the time it was added (about 5 months after launch).
Here is how they felt during TBC:
bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/98646792-we-need-free-respecs-or-spec-swapping/
So I have a question for you now:
In the effort to make an experience that is faithful to the original, should they be valuing more how the expansion was looked at and intended to be by the developers during that expansion, or a later expansion?
This doesn’t even just apply to dual spec. Later expansions have historically had completely different design goals from each other. From one to the next. It completely defeats the purpose if, let’s say we get a WOTLK-C, that they take the thoughts of the developers during Legion, and try to implement a bunch of things that were exclusively in Legion, just because they eventually got to a place where they thought Legion ideas were good and implemented them…in Legion.
This is a faithful recreation. It is not a TBC-and-everything-that-came-after-it playground mish-mash of ideas. We have an exact memory, a defining format or outline, of what TBCC is supposed to look like or be as relatively close to as possible.
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I wanted the original tbc experience too. That went out the window when they added a 58 boost, allowed bots and gold buying to run rampant since classic, and added changes to arena that weren’t in original tbc. This game is not and will never be an experience that is faithful to the original. And adding dual spec would help the current state of the game by letting people move between their desired content (pve vs pvp) with less restrictions.
From your link:
“Also, I wanted to point out that the argument about people respeccing for Arena teams makes the assumption that everyone is somehow running in one and thus needs multiple respecs. This is not true. Not everyone is respeccing between PvE and PvP and it’s not a majority of players that need to.”
Blizz acknowledged the reason for the change and argues it’s not needed because a majority of players don’t do arenas and pve. That is some terrible logic right there. They acknowledge the problem and say “welp, it doesn’t affect the majority of players so who cares.” And they eventually add it with a post contradicting their reason for keeping it out in the first place.
Zipzo has changed his argument from “OMG ITS BAD FOR THE GAME” because he can’t actually prove how its bad for the game to. “OMG IT’S NOT UNTIL WRATH!”
So this argument is good for him to use but for us to use same faction BGs as a reason why the game is already not what was advertised.
Exactly and there is no good reason to not add dual spec earlier.
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https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/eu-en/8041844862-talent-dual-spec-qa-with-ghostcrawler/
Nethaera : Why are we allowing players to dual spec after all this time?
Ghostcrawler : We really felt like this was a great way to increase the flexibility available to players and encourage them to take part in more aspects of the game. To use just one example, some players like to participate in both raids and Arenas, which is awesome behavior that we want to promote. But, there are some talents which are more useful in one part of the game than another. Currently, players have to pay respec costs and go through the process of setting up the desired talent spec and action bars whenever they switch.
The new system makes this a much more logical process, saving on time and cost and allowing players to easily move from one aspect of the game to another.
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Yes please.
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See, now people have to simultaneously justify Wrath while also abstaining from attributing phrases like “meaningful choices” and “go back to retail.”
Correct. For every change he doesn’t want he is a purist. For every change he wants, he suddenly shifts from his purist position to being more flexible.
Yet another reason why Zipzo is inconsistent. He will tout a blue post years ago as gospel for why not to add something while simultaneously ignoring posts like this one where a dev specifically tells people why they’re changing the game.
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It’s like they acknowledge its usefulness and maybe it should have been in the game before…they wanted better access to the game.
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And the post he is touting as gospel acknowledges the main problem with not having dual spec but dismisses it since it’s not affecting the majority of players. Pvp participation is at an all time low right now. Maybe adding dual spec and letting people switch between pvp and pve specs without returning to town, spending 100g, and setting up bars again for the new spec will encourage more people to participate in pvp. Crazy thought, I know.
Blue post from blizz
“Also, I wanted to point out that the argument about people respeccing for Arena teams makes the assumption that everyone is somehow running in one and thus needs multiple respecs. This is not true. Not everyone is respeccing between PvE and PvP and it’s not a majority of players that need to.”
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They later go on to change their stance on the subject when they added it to the game.
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