I get it, but I haven’t seen any serious discussion pushing against Dual Spec, just attacks, or accusations of entitlement, or accusations that we just hate some people somehow, or pushing for the “evils of Retail”, or other tripe.
If it was name calling and substantive arguments, I’d ignore the idiots and focus on the good arguments, but it is just name calling.
would you shutup about dual spec already? just because you are the most noisy minority does not make you the majority nor should you be looked to for insight on what’s best for the game. It’s like when Developers have a twitter account or make a reddit post, then let that feedback speak for everyone when they are just one tiny part of the userbase for their game that spends all their time posting online instead of playing.
No.
Well since I don’t have dual spec, I only raid log which gives me more time to post about it on the forums.
You have any proof that people that want (or are at least agnostic to) Dual Spec in TBCC are a “minority”?
This is a forced problem by a noisy and highly dedicated minority that want to get their way. Ask yourself why people who have nothing better to do but raid log can’t afford a 50g respec when their guilds have all the content on farm? These people don’t actually need or care about it, they just want to have the game changed for their whims so they can feel like they’re heard and left a mark. If you think that they’ll all just go home and stop posting about it once they get their way, you’re wrong, they will then start spamming a new ‘problem’ that’s suddenly a big deal. Probably something along the lines of “The dungeon finder isn’t good enough, and we NEED automatic dungeon matchmaking like retail, as well as instant teleports to dungeons, summoning stones do it anyway so just skip it”
They always demand more, and the only way to get rid of them is for developers to ignore them.
Proof of the % of the population?
I can afford it, I choose not to do it. Once again the gold is not the issue.
So you want to improve a game by getting rid of players, therefore lowering the income for the developers. Good luck friend.
A lot of nonsense in your opening sentence:
I have thousands of gold, I could respec hundreds of times today and not run out. It isn’t cost. Many of us have said this explicitly, you goobers just don’t listen. I’d even pay a premium over and above the 1k gold cost of Dual Spec from WotLK. Gold isn’t the issue, it is a strawman to make it the issue.
I care about the game, which is why I want Dual Spec added, as it will be more beneficial to the modern Classic audience than not.
…people will always make suggestions, this isn’t a new phenomena. Some of those suggestions will be poorly received and die within the thread that suggests them. Others will spark great interest and live on for days, weeks, months, etc. That suggestions exist doesn’t make any particular problem to address a bad thing. This is just “get off my lawn, yall too noisy” curmudgeon talk.
So you’re against changes for… the sake of just being against changes? Neat. Useless. But neat.
PS - You proved nothing other than that you’re a grumpy old coot that doesn’t like change for no other reason than the kiddos are too loud about changes. 
Are you one of the same people that looks at sales figures for a game to judge how successful and good it is, but ignore that 80-90% of the players who bought that successful game don’t play it more than a couple of hours before moving on to another? Activision has more than enough money from monthly subs and all the whales who bought into the boost and mount scheme to sustain these servers for a long time. If all the players who absolutely needed dual spec just to play the game were to leave today (And I mean REALLY leave, not just make a whiney post saying they’re leaving as a threat then come back 3 weeks later) it would barely dent the population, as most of them again, spend most of their time online whining than actually playing.
Do you have proof of this number or are you just making it up to make your point seem more valid?
Actually there are changes I want, but they are actually beneficial to the game. The main change I rally for is doing away with EXP leeching in dungeons and killing dungeon boosts outright. If the level difference between a group of players is too high, the EXP penalty should be severe enough that grouping with a 70 mage will net 1EXP per mob instead of the 200 they’re getting now. Why do I want this change? because it will slow down player progression which forces more people to form natural dungeon groups or quest together in zones which in turn populates the world.
What will adding dual spec do? you’ll have every healer and tank with an offspec ready to swap for a dungeon, but they still won’t want to play those roles if they aren’t already playing them now.
Ah yes, “everyone who disagrees with me is old and dumb and I am young and smart”
How about you quit over it and we can find out.
Same question, what will adding dual spec do that will make your gameplay experience so terrible that you would make up how much of the population is for or against it?
Not literal compulsion or arm twisting, no. But you’re trying to make a case for it so you’re trying to convince somebody and you might think something is being accomplished through doing that. So that doesn’t ring true for me.
All Im saying is whatever the criteria or rules are to get your preference some consideration it applies to both sides equally. If there’s no such criteria that’s fine too. If all you have to do is want it then all I have to do is to want to not want it according to the standard set here. All Im trying to get across.
You have a preference and a reason why you prefer it that way, that’s it. You prefer a little extra convenience in the form of dual specs. Some people prefer to not have dual specs and the convenience they provide. Those things cancel each other out if neither side has to twist anyones arm to get their way - so we’re back to the status quo.
I dont think the idea or discussion of dual specs are off limits - I dont think its wrong for wanting them - I think if a very good case can be made for them and there are enough people wanting them in the game then it should be given some consideration. I havent seen that yet though and Ive already explained why. This is just a war over preferences, and unless something comes down that clearly makes dual specs the better way to play TBC for every subscriber Im of the opinion its better off to leave it alone.
Neat!
That’s not the only reason Dual Spec provides convenience. For some, it is maintaining a second useful PvE role, to be used either in a very competitive manner in speed-running or otherwise hardcore guilds, or to be used for dungeon runs where CC and AoE reign supreme, or to be used for highly efficient farming. For others, it is maintaining a PvE and a PvP spec, respectively, so that when raid time ends regardless of the day of the week, BGs and Arenas can be run without having to hit Azeroth first. For still others, it is maintaining a spec you know and understand and comfortably return to, while having a 2nd spec that let’s you freely experiment with new things, get a feel for new roles, etc.
Finally, there are those people that simply like making their character better, stronger, faster, etc, even if those things aren’t even used. There are plenty of folks running around right now with four Gigantique bags on their character who rarely if EVER fill up their bagspace before they hit a vendor or think about selling stuff. There are probably people with a Riding Crop in their bags who often forget to put it on when mounting up, but that didn’t stop them from shelling out excessive gold to get one early on in TBCC. Unlocking things on your character makes people happy, makes them feel like they have yet another thing to achieve and earn. That in and of itself is a good thing.
You’re an old coot because you argue like an old coot, despite the fact that you’re probably a decade or more younger than I.
Spare me modernist tripe.
People against the idea of dual spec are unlikely to find substantial interest in maintaining that status quo, and the health criterion is a foregone conclusion. The Devs aren’t building TBCC around diehard purists or even purists of any kind, they’re building it around the modern Classic audience. We have modern Dev statements that show the old respec models of Vanilla just didn’t do what they were supposed to do, ever, which is why swapping specs became the non-decision it always has been.
Furthermore, the Dev intent on meaningful choice/design gets centered around CLASS choice and the identity felt while playing said class and playing a spec. Choosing a Druid over a Rogue should be meaningful, and it is, since I can’t turn into a Rogue, and all progress on this Druid doesn’t amount to much of anything on any future Rogue I roll. On the other hand, altering how my Druid plays only became more and more open as the game progressed into the modern era with the modern audience.
No, that’s not how any of this works.
If we, for the moment, treat all opinions on the matter as equal and subjective, then as far as convincing EACH OTHER is concerned, no one wins. That’s why all the gatekeeping is silly and pointless.
However, that doesn’t mean Blizzard can’t pick a winner or loser out of the bunch. My subjective preferences, and the reasons for those preferences, may be the literal reason why Blizzard chooses to add Dual Spec when we get T6 or ZA released, even if my particular set of preferences aren’t the most popular, or the ones that got shot down by you guys regularly.
The goal here isn’t to convince you, but Blizzard. That’s why being told to shut up and sit down by others is just bad form. I know people disagree, I’m not here to get them on board. If I convince some neutral people, neat, but when folks come out the gate as openly hostile and close minded as they do, that’s just futile effort.
We don’t have to make a “good case”
We’re not here to convince you. You keep adding modifiers to the mix that don’t belong. Blizzard doesn’t need a good case, they just need a case.
And no one would force them to use these if they were put in the game so it would remain unchanged for them.
I am a tank, I only play the game for raids, so you are saying I would play a tank less in dungeons if dual spec existed? I already raid log because I am not willing to respec every time I want to do something other than tank. I’d just rather log off and do something else.
You forgot that we can choose to not use the feature - see how it makes everyone universally happy?!! You’re just opposing universal happiness.
/sarcasm
This is very true. You are against a feature that no one can force you to use. I am trying to figure out HOW it would negatively impact your gameplay experience?
As I wrote in the other superfluous ds thread:
It’s not a solo game. Things that change the way you can play also change my options and how I have to play - whether or not I want it. Constraints make people do things in ways they otherwise wouldn’t. They make people have to meet others or group up when they otherwise wouldn’t. They make people go out into the open world or grind specific mobs they otherwise wouldn’t.
There’s lots of ways people play and interact with each other that change when constraints are removed. Some constraints are a good thing - they encourage and facilitate fun types of gameplay.