You’ll never get rid of Team Loyalist Trivalfrank!
Team Loyalist blast off at the speed of spite!
Surrender now or prepare for blight!
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A giant L symbol is fitting for a loyalist 
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My kind of group!
If I join do I have to put on a shirt?
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Uniforms are mandatory! Also, you have to learn the intro by heart.
“Prepare for trouble!
And make it double!
To cover the world in devastation!
To break the treaties between our nations!
To announce the evils of Hope and Love!
To extend our reach to the forums above!
(Shout your name here along with your partner)
Team Loyalist blast off at the speed of spite!
Surrender now or prepare for blight!”
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That is catchy… but the shirt thing is a big minus.
You’re not making Sam into Jessie.
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Hahahahaha…wait…he serious? Oh dear…
Wow such humble…much arrogance…many pitties… =O
I thiiink you might be taking this a little too seriously there man…
Like seriously dude. If you don t like blood elves then…here s a revolutionary idea. Don t play as one?
Well my issue with High Elves is that Blizzard has repeatedly stated that they comprise a fraction of a fraction of the Quel’thalas population; that is denied access to a lion’s share of their lore and history due to decisions they themselves have made over the last 15 years. Long story short, people may try to obfuscate it in different ways, but really it does sort of seem like people just want to play the BE skin on the Alliance side (but a more flawless version of them).
As for your vision of the Horde, stop acting as though its fact man. Its opinion, and nothing else … one that is sort of irrelevant because the BEs have been part of the faction for ages? You like the NOBLE SAVAGE archetype, and that’s fine (you are entitled to it). I on the other hand think if the Horde never evolved from that archetype, we’d be just as irrelevant in EVERY SINGLE bit of content POST Vanilla than we were post lvl 40 IN Vanilla (and the faction of NOBLE SAVAGES would be just sitting around with thumb up their butt being “included” in the Alliance’s content; since we’d have few motives to actually BE involved in most of that content).
The BEs have been part of the Horde for 13 years now. They are here to stay. So rather than acting like somehow your PURE vision of the Horde is the correct one, just admit the current vision of the Horde doesn’t live up to that and end it there.
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But then they go and show High Elves represented in the Arathi Highlands warfront. It’s like a slap in the face to the Alliance basically. Why should lore matter at this point? Blizzard doesn’t care about lore when it comes to the Horde or for much of the game at all, so why should they follow a strict lore when it pertains to the Alliance?
It’s a popular demand that has been requested ever since 2004 for the Alliance and it would be welcomed by much of the player base except for some Horde players who would dislike it. There was a reason introducing Blood Elves to the Horde was so controversial at the time of The Burning Crusade because the High Elf race was so closely aligned with the Alliance in the previous Warcraft games.
There simply was no compelling lore reason that made Blood Elves on the Horde some irrefutable decision because it had nothing to do with lore. I am right when I say the only reason they added Blood Elves to the Horde was to boost the popularity of the Horde and Blizzard themselves echo this sentiment having admitted they wanted their girlfriends to play Elves. And that’s precisely why Blizzard is so stubborn in refusing to give the Alliance playable High Elves because they know the decision of adding Blood Elves to the Horde wasn’t anything related to coherent lore, but just a method to create a popularity boost to the Horde and they don’t want to give the Alliance a unique playable High Elf race in fear that it would tip the popularity scale in favor of the Alliance after they’ve worked so hard over the years ensuring that the Horde is the popular faction.
My dislike for Blood Elves being on the Horde is an opinion. My reason for why people play Blood Elves and why it’s the most popular race on the Horde is a fact. It’s the most human looking “pretty” race containing Alliance aesthetics available on the Horde. They are humans with pointy ears and glowing eyes. It has nothing to do with this many people who play Blood Elves being so impressed by Blood Elf lore and thinking it’s so much better than the stories of the other Horde races. It’s all because of appearance. You get to play an Alliance looking character but don’t have to play on the Alliance when you play Blood Elf.
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Remember when the “Alliance” campaign of Frozen Throne was the Blood Elves being screwed over by humans and joining Illidan?
A motivation besides narrative for its own sake for writing something doesn’t invalidate what ends up written. The Forsaken provided a sensible entry point for the Blood Elves into the Horde. They were not the exact same Elves. They were face to face with extinction and believed the Horde could get them to the promised land which turned out to be a sham. Just like we have Forsaken now upset with Sylvanas calling the Horde nothing, the Horde didn’t remain simply a means to the end in the mind of the Blood Elves.
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I’m in.
I was in yesterday.
Do the uniforms come in rose pink?
I’m starting to think you might have point.
All the new races the Horde has received are…fricking girly. Blood Elf Barbie Dolls, Nightborne sorority moms, Goblin granny schoolmarms…They’re all more feminine than the wage gap. What does Blizzard want, for the Horde to make Anduin a sandwich?
The Horde doesn’t make sandwiches. The Horde rides for Valhalla on the screaming, dissonant wings of a flame-belching guitar. It collars the Alliance and drags it down the path of bone to the feet of the masked warchief while it revels in the blood of elven children.
I’m sorry it took me this long to feel the chains of truth, mi papa. How can I serve you?
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There’s still no basis to this assertion outside of your lack of creative vision and basically tacit admission that Alliance story lines (involving elf lore human lore, etc) are to you more compelling and important. There were massive potentialities for Horde story telling beyond what was given. The amount of troll lore alone could have given one basis for future Horde involvement in the story.
I mean, you are on the record crying about the Hordes lack of involvement in Legion. Which, fair enough, there was barely any. Yet it was the “underdog” “tribal” Horde, that you claim is irrelevant, which had every reason to be involved in that story. The Orcs had plenty of debts and grudges to settle with the Burning Legion.
The Hordes relevancy or lack of relevancy simply has nothing what so ever to do with its WC3/Classic themes/status. It only has to do with either a lack of creative vision or a lack of desire to develop and build upon certain aspects of the Horde as opposed to others.
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I remember when Quel’thalas would’ve been fully conquered by the Horde if it wasn’t for the help of the Alliance and Turalyon. The Blood Elves begged the Alliance to help defend them from the Amani and Scourge. But now Blood Elf players make up incoherent nonsense about them being spies. The only time the Elves of Quel’thalas were faced with extinction was because of the Horde and Arthas. Arthas who the Alliance also hated. It had nothing to do with humans screwing them over. It was Blood Elves screwing over the Alliance because of Blizzards nonsensical decision of writing them into the Horde. Their history was much greater with the Alliance. You would be a die hard Alliance player right now calling the Horde evil and genocidal if Blood Elves were on the Alliance. 
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Which trolls are in the Horde? How can you claim Arthas was not Alliance, but simultaneously claim the Amani are Horde? Or are we talking about the magical demon corrupted horde? Wasn’t Arthas also magically corrupted. Sure by “Ner’zhul” but remember his mind is mangled at this point by an Eredar. Are we to blame the Alliance for that? No because they somehow get distanced as well. How does magical corruption distance Arthas from the Alliance, but doesn’t distance fel crazed orcs from the Horde? I’d argue it distances both.
Also, MAYBE alliances aren’t always set in stone. Did the Alliance actually accomplish their task of saving Quel’thalas from the scourge? I’d argue…not really.
I understand you want Tolkien-esque differences between the factions. That would be a return to the games roots in warcraft 1 & 2, but doing that would ignore 3.
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Unpopular opinion obviously, but part of me personally kind of wishes the Blood Elves stayed Alliance. Not because I don’t think they fit the Horde or anything but really because I think the Alliance really did lose something potentially cool with the direction they had the Blood Elves go in. Rather than Legolas lite elves that they may have been in WC2, they became more vengeance driven and using demonic magics.
I’d argue it was pretty cool and broke the Tolkien standard right then and there to have the elves go more of a dark sorcerous and stand as a stark contrast to the Humans or Dwarves who maintained being traditionally good, all while still having a style to them that fit comfortably well with human and dwarf style buildings and complimenting the well-roundedness that characterized the playstyle of the Alliance army.
People can argue having elves fight on the same team as Orcs is cool and subversive that fantasy doesn’t do as often but I think it was equally cool and subversive to give us elves that weren’t the same copy/paste woodland archer archetype and were far darker while still being allies to Humans and Dwarves. (It’s part of why I really like Void Elves, despite how it seems like the lore community will never accept them with how the writers deemed it fit to introduce them into the setting.)
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When did I claim Arthas was not Alliance and that Amani are Horde? I made the point that hating Arthas was a commonality the Blood Elves shared with the Alliance. I brought up the Amani because it was the Orcish Horde who joined with them to take back Quel’thalas which is Troll land and it was the Humans who came to the aid of the Elves in Quel’thalas to stop the Orcish Horde and Amani from conquering them and killing them all. Their survival as a kingdom and people in the second war was entirely thanks to the Alliance and it far outweighs the so called “screwings” of the Blood Elves in Warcraft 3.
And neither did the Horde. So what’s your point?
No, it’s not ignoring it because there was nothing in Warcraft 3 that pointed to Blood Elves irrefutably having to join the Horde over the Alliance. The Blood Elves had no part at all in the Horde story of Warcraft 3. All their history goes back to the Alliance. Again, the decision for Blood Elves on the Horde was not based around any coherent lore. It was entirely a decision made to just mold a popularity onto the Horde because having High Elves/Blood Elves on the Alliance would have put the popularity of the Alliance over the top and Blizzard would never want that. Since after all who wants to play a faction of Orcs, Trolls and Ogres except ya know… Actual Horde fans.
So my point stands. Blood Elf players with their gold eyes and Paladin armors would all be hating the Horde right now and calling them evil and genocidal if Blood Elves had joined with the Alliance due to their lore consistent historical connection with the Alliance in the wars.
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The spies being discussed are a dwarf and night elves gathering intel on strategic buildings. The night elves are hostile and have military camps.
The human that screwed them was Garithos, who was trying to get them killed. After his forces were gone, there was only the distant Ironforge and Stormwind for help, who probably were suspicious of the spooky green crystals and involvement with Illidan.
Don’t make assumptions about me. I would probably be calling the writing bad just the same
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Gathering intel isn’t an act of war. Even allies gather intel on eachother.
How are they hostile? They killed nobody. In fact it’s just the Blood Elves immediately killing them. Despite that, it makes no sense anyways and it doesn’t suddenly make the Blood Elves being on the Horde any less nonsensical. A few made up spies doesn’t outweigh the history the High Elves/Blood Elves share with the Alliance. If we go off Warcraft 3 the Blood Elves and Night Elves should be friendly. The “spy” stuff was just made up to try and justify their awful incoherent decision of adding Blood Elves to the Horde in TBC.
Garithos is one individual human in a time of war. Compare that to the Orcish Horde that sadly failed trying to wipe out and conquer the entire Quel’thalas kingdom in the Second War thanks to the Alliance saving them and now Blood Elves fight alongside Orcs in the Horde. It’s incoherent.
Aah, I quite enjoy these “response” snapbacks.
Read the section I quoted from you. There is a logical through-line, whether intended or unintended, that you made. I will quote it again for context…
I do appreciate the clarification of the Orcish horde!
My point is that requesting aid is not a justifiable reason for maintaining loyalties to a faction when said aid kind of failed. I said nothing about the Horde helping them in that instance. Maybe a difference of opinion.
Exactly. Their history does indeed go to the Alliance, that led them to a fel-addicted shell of their former selves. I’m just saying that it shouldn’t be irrefutable that they fight for the Alliance.
Oh I completely agree. I don’t buy into subversion for subversions sake. There could be some cool stories, but there can also be cool stories with the way it has been setup. My position is I don’t think this choice was made only to be subversive. I think that this choice can be argued either way, with valid lore sources. I will “wait and see” if they take this route with the void elves, night elves, or the Gilneans. All of these groups could fill in the role of Alliance heel, but I have my doubts…
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They gave as much aid as they could because ummm… the Alliance was also a victim of genocide by the Scourge as well. But before the Scourge invasions the Alliance had always came to the aid of the Elves as seen in the Second War. There is absolutely no valid reason for the Blood Elves to hate the Alliance. And if that’s the best reason you can come up with then the Blood Elves are just a-holes and their loyalty should always be in question.
The Blood Elves being on the Horde is a done deal but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t bad writing. It seems like on these forums every thing is okay of being called out as bad writing except for saying Blood Elves joining the Horde was bad writing.