When the conversation is about Night Elves and you still find a way to make it about Blood Elves 
we love an undercover fan!
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I mean, they could have just rolled with the story of Jaina wanting vengeance for Theramore and for Varian and such but I guess Blizzard in their wisdom decided they wanted another Alliance character to be their split from the faction hate horde vengeance incarnate ragebot.
Someone not human of course.
They just needed the reason, I guess.
At any rate, I wouldnât call it âback to where we startedâ for the Horde really.
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All the warmongering and/or evil members of the Horde have either been killed or ran away or are in a position where no one would take them seriously. All the other leaders are sick of war and would be fine with peace for a while.
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The Warchief title is apparently being abandoned, and leadership will likely be spread evenly among the Horde.
Unless some major asspulling and character assassination happens, I donât see the Horde being the agressors towards the Alliance in the forseeable future.
I wouldnât put anything past Blizzard though. 
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Oh yay another one of these threads. Please do go on
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At most, the player race faction of Blood Elves were screwed by the Sunfury with regards to their activity against the Draenei.
In the leveling zones, Night Elves had military camps in their land. A dwarf âambassadorâ was sketching defenses. The Horde sent actual ambassadors and the Forsaken were helping them survive against the Scourge. I donât think its unreasonable for a race that was still fearing extinction to be willing to talk with the Horde, which they probably quickly figured out it wasnât truly the Horde that attacked them previously.
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Donât bother, Trivel has a very specific image (and long dead) image of what the Horde is that the BEs infringe upon. Thus, he tends to only come on these threads to reminisce about the âGood Old Daysâ before Elves; or complain about Elves.
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Iâve always pictured him as Mr. Turner, but instead of Curse you, Dinkleberg! heâs shouting about Blood Elves while shaking his fist.
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No Blood Elf safe spaces for you.
No. There was no reasonable lore reason to add Blood Elves to the Horde. It had nothing to do with lore. Blizzard themselves stated they added Blood Elves simply because they wanted their girlfriends to play Elves instead of Troll and Orcs. They also couldnât stand seeing the Horde less populated than the Alliance so they came up with a way to look like an Alliance character but play on the Horde and it worked boosting the Horde population.
If there were any lore coherence then the Blood Elves wouldâve joined the Alliance.
Iâm glad you enjoy the joke our faction became with Vulpera, phony fake Night Elves known as âNightborneâ, Paladins, 50% Blood Elves and Undead. What even is the Horde at this point? Itâs just a bunch of things thrown together at random that the developers think looks cool and that will bring the most people to play the Horde. It has no coherent theme or aesthetic.
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Your right I do. I have long since gotten over the idea that Arcane Elves are now part of the Faction; and have accepted that while they aesthetically clash ⊠thematically they have done allright representing the core tenants of Thrallâs Horde (Lorâthemar has repeatedly shown that he bleeds red the last 13 years). So, once you can accept the BEs, accepting the NBs is fairly easy.
As for the Vulpera, once you get past their fluffy exterior ⊠they couldnât BE more classic Warcraft 3 Horde. An underdog ex-slave race with a savage edge and a strong emphasis on survival despite all odds. Slap this description on both the Orcs AND Tauren and it could easily apply. Hell, even the Forsaken would apply to this (as they were enslaved to the Scourge).
But ⊠I think you put FAR more emphasis on the surface AESTHETICS of the Faction over the core THEMATICS of it. Which is why you look in disgust at BEs being part of the Faction (after 13 years) and ignore the fact that the only thing that really allows the Vulpera to stand out with their rather generic âHorde Raceâ themes is their cute exteriors (theyâre honestly sort of unremarkable).
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What are the ideals of the Horde at this point? Just a place for races the Alliance might try to wipe out because of what the Horde itself has done?
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Eh probably.
Well, that is the question. What DOES the Faction stand for. I would wager up until now it really was a compilation of desperate peoples thrust together out of necessity (and a need for survival). Most of these peoples were also hardened in some way (in that the world or recent events heavily impacted how they interact with the world). Each AR recruitment scenario also touched on the themes like:
- Retention of Cultural Identiy, despite being part of a group (NBs)
- Maintaining a level of equality and autonomy (Zandalari)
- Reciprocal Loyalty (Magâhar ended up with this one in the end).
- Honor ⊠or at least the pursuit of being worthy of a chance at it.
But ⊠Iâd wager (if Blizz actually bothers to put the work in) the intention with this council system is to increase investment in the success of the Faction for each participating race (beyond simple self-preservation). What that cohesiveness actually centers around I havenât a clue (but since they are building Saurfang up as quite the flawed Martyr; he may turn into a cornerstone of the Faction in some way).
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Hogwash. Few people view nations in such a manner.
All I see are reasons the faction war story has been awful, as the Alliance has those things as well. There isnât anything worth waving the red banner for when we are better off with the blue one.
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But the Alliance (allegedly) has prejudice! Something we clearly know is not found within the Horde.
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This is Warcraft 3 Horde. This is the Horde. Not Vulpera singing cutesie songs about alpacas and uppity Elves incoherently embraced into the faction at every turn. There is no coherent lore reason why the âNightborneâ were accepted into the Horde. It was just because Suramar was Blizzards artistic pride that they put the most effort into in Legion and because of that they wanted them to be Horde.
I donât even care if the Horde are villains necessarily. The Old Horde from Warcraft 1 and 2 which Iâve played was cool, despite being labeled evil. This stuff with Sylvanas leading the Horde was garbage and it looked totally nonsensical. The Horde that slaughtered Humans and High Elves fresh out of the dark portal looking for conquest is coherent. Not the Horde that embraces former High Elves now known as âBlood Elvesâ into the Horde and allowed itself to be led by a High Elf, her human lover and her undead minion army. Taking on Alliance Paladin, Mage and Elvish aesthetics, but still hating the Alliance just for the sake of hating the Alliance despite no real reason for it is not nor should it ever be what the Horde is about.
With Warcraft 3 Reforged we will finally get to see again what the REAL Horde looks like. Elves will be our enemies as they should be, not our nonsensical friends.
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Itâs just another one of those boring types that thinks theyâre more enlightened and have patrician taste because they play uggo ooga booga monsters and not traditional fantasy races.
When really, fantasy is just as rife with heroic monster protagonists as the traditional fantasy races to the point is might as well be a fantasy cliche as well. (And Elder Scrolls did redeemed playable Orcs before Warcraft made it cool.)
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Was there anything worth waving the red banner for before? Seriously? Maintaining a perpetual underdog status is nearly impossible, and once we lost that all we were representing was a bunch of EXTREMELY diverse races hanging out together for survival (in a world that increasingly proved that unnecessary). Which essentially meant the RED TEAM increasingly came off simply representing NOT BEING the BLUE TEAM (we have been a contrarian faction for SO LONG).
The reason the Horde SHOULDNâT find some level of cohesion is because the Alliance is ALREADY cohesive (we should be at eachotherâs throats and have despots that are essentially just using the faction, and have no true loyalty to it or their own people). We SHOULDNâT find something to stand for as a Faction beyond âSelf Preservationâ, because the ALLIANCE already represents all the things we could possibly stand for (and thus we have a Faction which increasingly makes less and less sense to exist, because we have nothing really keeping us together but Game Mechanics).
Its honestly unsurprising that should Blizzard decide to find a method to justify the Hordeâs continued existence going forward, weâd end up looking more like the Alliance (because Blizzard was so thorough and âFLAWLESSâ (lack of flaws) at setting up the Alliance that they already stand for EVERYTHING but the the UNDERDOG STRUGGLE already). Its part of why I think its sort of pointless to compare the two factions at this point.
EDIT: And as a side note, perhaps its perfectly fine that the HORDE start looking like the Alliance for a while. Social Cohesiveness; Standing for something beyond simple survival; Health; Growth; Stability (all WITHOUT the threats of the world FORCING us to maintain them) ⊠these are stories that havenât REALLY been explored that much on the Horde side. Instead, perhaps its MORE important to start focusing on the cracks in the seams of what really was a monolith of the Alliance? Have them fracture. Have them soul search. Have them have some genuine disunity (Blizz has the opportunity to do so atm certainly). New stories for both sides that would be considered OLD and TIRED stories if they were given to the opposing side.
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Yeah Charlie Brown, I can tell you what the Horde is all about.
"We came to this world as exiles and outcasts, but together we can be more. A weapon to break the chains of oppression. A bastion for the hunted and the lost. A family bound by blood and honor. And if our enemies do not give us peace? We will give them war!
Victory or Death! This I pledge as your Warchief! Until the end of days, I live and die For the Horde!!!"
This will make me pick up and wave the red banner every time.
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That was the Thrall of WC3 up to Wrath. Back when the Alliance was a serious threat to the Horde. Before he started the mess with appointing Garrosh.
I can respect someone who can endure the sheer physical pain of being this wrong.
You are a tough orc indeed.
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