I just hope that a reformed Horde doesn’t simply amount to switching roles with the Alliance as the aggressive, monolithic ****heads starting wars.
That’d be just as bad as another supervillain Warchief.
1 Like
x_https://wow.gamepedia.com/Path_of_Glory
At least we’d get to raid teldrahhh… oh wait i mean stormwind.
don’t worry, horde will never be considered good guys. They have too many crimes on their bank account for that.
I just wish the alliance wasn’t as passive and would actually strike back once.
Oh the Horde might not be the ‘good guys’ per say but I am pretty sure they can make the Alliance look like monsters if they want to flip the tables. Just have the Alliance burn down horde orphanages with the orphans locked inside and sacrifice hapless tauren farmers and serfs to Elune in brutal torturous sacrificial rituals.
Blizzard are masters of ‘cursed monkey paw’ writing ie. giving you what you asked for but in a way your really, really didn’t want.
21 Likes
Oh well, I think it’s clear now that Blizzard wants the alliance to be the boring fools that can never do anything wrong and instead of punishing the horde for their crimes, they just forgive them.
I wonder why we didn’t just forgive Sargeras, or Arthas, or maybe N’zoth?
1 Like
I don’t think you could ever dislodge the Horde as the troublemakers of Azeroth. Counsel or no will find some way to get it dissolved in less than a week after the next expansion launches.
A Horde without a Warchief isn’t much of a Horde. Just another Alliance except full of barbaric monsters instead of civilised ones.
Let’s get the night elves as an example:
-
Had an empire with a maniacal queen who’s alive until this day who literaly gave Azeroth’s location to the Legion cause she wanted to mess around with magic.
-
They where the ones who literaly tore the world apart aka the Sundering.
-
Xavius and Ilidan. (Yeah Illidan still did bad things, they still count)
-
Ralaar Fangfire who spreaded the worgen curse around.
So if past deeds performed by bad commanders automatically ‘‘contaminate’’ everyone like you always say. Then I welcome you Night Elves to ‘‘villain faction’’! \o/ Congrats. Here’s your dark side cookie sweetheart!
Bottom line. A bad commander’s action is HIS and his alone. You can’t condemn an entire race / people for one person’s mistake or else you’l inevitably punish inocent people whose only crime was to share the same genetics as the guy and[quote=“Ëlësåna-maelstrom, post:49, topic:334984”]
Yes, the night elves had some bad people. We all know that and I’m not denying that, but you can’t blame the whole night elves for a few invidivuals who did bad things.
[/quote]
But you can blame the entire Horde for what a couple of bad commanders did?
And you think no civilians died under Aszhara’s rule? Or during the Sundering?
Glad we agree you can’t blame the WHOLE HORDE for a WARCHIEF, AN INDIVIDUAL’s actions.
No you are not…you literaly said this:
You literaly just contradicted yourself.
3 Likes
Yes, the night elves had some bad people. We all know that and I’m not denying that, but you can’t blame all night elves for a few individuals who did bad things. Especially those civilians that were just minding their own business.
You can’t make all orcs responsible for Gul’dans actions either, or all undeads for the scourge’s actions.
The difference is I’m making those responsible that fought in the war of thorns and killed civilians even before Sylvanas commited genocide.
Yes, I said those that fought in the War of Thorns and killed civilians even before Sylvanas gave the order to commit the genocide.
How so? They are not keeping the lands, they are destroying it right now and blighting it so nobody can use it.
The thing is, the horde can’t blame everything on Sylvanas but then also keep doing what Sylvanas has started by not returning the lands, not apologizing to those they betrayed and just continuing to destroy the lands.
2 Likes
You started saying this…
And now…
Do I have to say more?
2 Likes
I mean Sylvanas was acting in the name of the horde back then and the horde itself had absolutely no problem with what she did until the point where she said that the horde is nothing.
The only one that had a problem with Teldrassil itself was Saurfang, others only joined after Sylvanas did further questionable things.
Also, killing civilians in Ashenvale were the horde armies’ actions, not Sylvanas.
So, if the current and reformed horde doesn’t feel regret for what Sylvanas did and just keep continuing Sylvanas actions by not returning/further destroying the lands and not showing any sort of regret, what makes them better?
6 Likes
Every night elf was acting under Aszhara’s orders too back then…
Back then I think only Tyrande and Malfurion had a problem with Aszhara…
Yeah sure…they are remorseless…that’s why they rebelled and kicked Sylvanas out right? But yeah the story is still to be told buuut of course you think you know it better right?
Bottom line. If night elves do something bad, theeeen it’s not their fault, it’s their commander’s fault! But if a race or faction you don’t like do something bad. Then every single one of those foot soldiers following orders are the devil.
I think we all see your sense of right and wrong is directly atuned to your personal likings about said race…cause now you’re making excuses for the night elves.
“Hipocrisy my name is Elesana.”
1 Like
Only for their own good. Not because she commited genocide. That was only Saurfang. As of 8.3, we see absolutely no reparations to the night elves (e.g. returning lands, apologizing or other things), thus Tyrande refuses to sign the treaty.
No, but blaming night elf civilians in Teldrassil for something their ancestors did a few thousands of years ago is ridiculous. Especially since we’ve been fighting Azsharas people for a long time now.
Also I never said the night elves as a race are free of guilt, but that still doesn’t change the fact that the horde has failed to show any significant changes or signs of regret after Sylvanas has commited genocide.
So if the current horde doesn’t differ from Sylvanas horde, what makes them better?
4 Likes
First of all. The same applies to the Horde you can t blame every single civilian for what Sylvanas did. That applies to everyone period.
And second. Chill the hell out and wait for the story to continue before acusing everyone of being remorseless. That will be adressed as the story moves on. The current patch stoped when Sylvanas literaly bailed out.
1 Like
Well yea not the civilians, but rather the horde as a military force.
I will wait, but usually I still get disappointed even though I expect nothing so…
My view of the horde remains as long as the horde hasn’t shown any kind of remorse for what they did, and 8.3 also doesn’t include any of that so maybe there’s a slight chance that they’ll announce something at blizzcon, but I highly doubt it.
4 Likes
Yeah yeah we got it. Everyone is satan…unless they are nelves. Then it s ok.
yup because that’s what I said
3 Likes
I’m not sure if you honestly believe this or are making an intentional misrepresentation to make a point.
Azshara and her loyal Highborne unleashed the Legion the Azeroth to ethnically cleanse the lowborn Night Elves and all the other races on Azeroth. The lowborn Night Elves formed the Resistance right away and were not under Azshara’s orders. The two group of Highborne that were loyal to Azshara and supported Azshara’s genocide but then turned against her during the War of the Ancients when they realized the Legion would turn on the Highborne as well would eventually become the Blood Elves and the Nightborne, neither of which are Alliance Night Elves.
You could compare the Horde rebellion at best to the Highborne that turned on Azshara and would eventually become the Blood Elves, in that both the Horde and the Highborne supported their leaders even after said leaders took genocidal actions and only turned against them when they themselves were at risk. Like the Nightborne, however, the Horde has yet to show remorse for having supported genocidal maniacs. The Night Elf Resistance, however, never supported Azshara the way the Horde supported Sylvanas.
That is where your comparison falls apart.
12 Likes
This current Reformed Horde is laughable. The only reason it exists is because Sylvanas cast them off and flew away. They did not reject her or her policies - they simply did an about face after Sylvanas displayed her feelings towards them.
Geyarah’s heel turn seems to be based more on Sylvanas’s selfish purposes rather than the violence or cruelty or warmongering Sylvanas championed.
It seems the Horde is very petty and worthless. It was nothing as Sylvanas won the Makgora, and it is less than nothing now. Which is why the Alliance might find them easier to control.
If the Alliance has any reason to allow the Horde to exist, it is because they may need some help later. Which seems the opposite of Faction Pride for both Factions.
29 Likes
Dude I Highbornes where the nobility of the night elf empire. They don’t become another race just cause they call themselves something else.
Also I know. My point is exactly that you can’t blame an entire race for the actions of a bad leader like she is doing, my point was to show her how her logic is flawed and nonsensical. What she’s doing is trying to blame all Horde for a couple of people’s actions and then when I point out that Night Elves had also bad leaders doing bad things, theeeeen sudently she wants to justify it.
A leader’s actions are his alone and it is unfair to acuse everyone that was either doing their job or that by any chance share a genetic similarity to said leader for something that they had no control over or any way to object.
That is the point.