I don’t think it’s too late to change. If we’re gonna play this ‘original sin’ thing, even the Alliance could be found guilty.
Also the guys rebelled, kicked Sylvanas out and the probability is, reparations will be done. It’s physically impossible to do more than that unless Elune herself comes to earth and starts to mass ress everything.
You having a biased, limited and childish vision of the Horde? Whoa color me surprised! lifts sarcasm sign
If Blizzard wanted to it could have the Alliance blow up multiple inhabited planets the Alliance Player visited just to deprive the Horde of resources before the Horde even so much as discovers the existence of said planets!
Blizzard could easily shatter the Alliance’s superior morality with a single cutscene! Us Alliance Players are way too confident in our supposed goodness for our own good in my opinion!
I should not have to remind you that the same optimism was present at the end of MoP. People rejoiced that we would have a sensible Warchief, that both factions had their fill of faction war, and we could move on to other things with the franchise.
There is nothing to stop Blizzard and the same stack of horrible writers from dragging us down this path once again in the exact same fashion as before. They will scrape this bottom of the barrel for more cheap shocks and trite, edgy nonsense for as long as it is profitable for them to do so.
More than that no amount of optimistic reform will erase the past. Trying to ignore the awfulness Blizz has put us through with BFA and sweep it under the rug to be ignored is just short-sighted. More than that, it’s likely exactly what they want you to do.
Meh … sorry, I’m on an optimism high.
The only things I’m tentative of are: A) Giving the NEs SOME resolution; B) The Forsaken NEs … and what will happen to them; C) Calia Menethil; and D) Blizzard NOT investing in developing what really is a rather underdeveloped Horde cast. But … those are issues for a future patch, I’ll just enjoy my tepid calm I’ve gained atm.
i think that the horde has been completely destroyed from a concept level of “what the horde is”
Because this expansion showed me not only that they supported genocide but also that the only reason why they abandoned sylvanas is because she said that they suck and SHE abandoned them. and not because it was the actual right thing to do.
On top of that baine betrays sylvanas when the horde starts losing the war hard and for a human raised, and not, you know for the actual genocide.
But i do understand if their fans still are holding up to… something, maybe for what the horde once was.
And like tyrande said… the horde hasn’t really done much to redeem themselves for that they have done.
Only baine showed good faith and maybe saurfang…the rest?..yeah…
If they wanted the horde to cater to the edgelords they would just leave the horde evil instead of scapegoating it all on to Sylvanas.
There needs to be some serious remorse and reparations made by the Horde to the Alliance before we can move past what seems like an utterly irredeemable narrative that damned the Horde to a villain status on par with the Scourge, Burning Legion, or Twilight Cultists. The issue with this is that any remorse is going to feel hollow, shallow, or just outright insincere, and the Horde’s resources have never been high enough that they can support themselves outside of the best of times, much less make any kind of reparation to those they have wronged.
I think another issue that would need to be analyzed is whether or not it would be hypocritical to demand these kinds of gestures from the Horde, and not the Alliance. I don’t mean from the Alliance to the Horde, either, not entirely at any rate. The Zandalari were dragged into a war and lost their king, and the Vulpera were attacked. Even if the Vulpera were legitimate military targets due to their role of transporting goods, this is still a degree of aggression from the Alliance that failed to take into account the repercussions. The Vulperas’ caravans were burned, and those caravans are their homes, shelters, and livelihoods all in one.
There is also the issue of displaced and depleted populations that needs to be brought into question. The Mag’har are squatting in Orgrimmar, the center of civilization and most of the population of the Nelves are both gone, the Forsaken are likewise without a home, etc…
The reality of what needs to be addressed is so staggering that I don’t think a novel could even correctly cover it all. It does need to be addressed, however, to bring the factions forward out of this current mood.
Something I feel the Horde could do, and even SHOULD do, is to embrace the way of life the Orcs led on Draenor before the Legion found the world. The Orcish population should be divided into various Clans, and then separated by great distances, effectively weakening their ability to pose a threat as a united front at a given notice. The arrival of the Mag’har could easily be a catalyst towards this sort of development. Having the Orcs spread out through southern Kalimdor would probably be the best way to go. With diplomacy, some clans, such as the Frostwolves, could remain in the Eastern Kingdoms as well. That one seems simple enough since I don’t believe they took any significant role in the Blood War.
Much as I hate to say it, Calia Menethil becoming the Queen of the Forsaken gives them something of a last chance to prove they’re more than the Scourge 2.0, and I think Forsaken society would be free enough at that point to capitalize on that opportunity. If the Royal Apothecary Society, for example, found a way to neutralize the Blight, testing it in Lordaeron, and then used it to cleanse Darkshore and other nelf territories, it’d be the first of many, many gestures to redeem them.
In the end, the redemption of the Horde is a story that’s going to affect the Alliance profoundly just by association, and needs to be spread out across the game’s remaining lifetime.
Gee when they did that before? Oh right, MoP. History has shown this won’t be any different.
Metzen was the heart of the Horde. The moment he began handing off the reins, it was doomed.
I find it impossible to believe there isn’t a single person at Blizzard who has a passion for the Horde Metzen created with WC3.
I’m sure there are plenty of em, but if they aren’t Alex or Ion it won’t matter.
C’est la vie baby
You ever reread a sentence and find it made more sense when you first posted it? “Gee when they did that before?” It looks so obviously wrong in hindsight.
It’s never too late for reforms according to Blizzard. They can keep recycling the same narrative every other expansion and there’ll always be a reason why the Alliance should just forgive and forget, so that the cycle may repeat itself in the future whenever they’re feeling creatively bankrupt.
Yeah, I don’t get why people think edgelords would be happy with this expansion. The expansion, to me, felt like it was more for Anduin and a specific kind of Anduin/Alliance fan.
– Anduin’s flaws were washed away or excused. (or in the case of his “magic bones” turned into a plot device)
– Anyone that outright counters him is painted as extreme or wrong, including his own faction. (see how they treat Tyrande versus Genn who still sides with Anduin even if he agrees with Tyrande)
– Characters like Jaina were put on paths that made them more like the person Anduin would prefer they be. (or she had a Moment when she saw the new Thrall, whichever)
– Saurfang told the Horde PC he was done with the Horde, but as soon as Anduin was sad at him he jumped at the chance to save the Horde even at the cost of his own life.
– The Horde’s entire “redemption” came with a nice helping of “we think we’re monsters, but Anduin believes in us!” like his opinion should matter to the Horde at all.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Anduin but this expansion has twisted itself around him like he’s the main character of a single player game.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see Tyrande die in Anduin’s arms, crying about how he was right and her heart was clouded by revenge and she should have taken care of the living instead of killing for the dead like he tried to teach her. Then he’ll be blessed by Elune and the Night Elves will forgive the Horde for everything.
Remember how Jaina started with “I’m listening now, father”
But then they do a 180 in the Pride of Kul Tiras and Katherine goes “oh, Daelin was wrong!”
And then Anduin is like “Daelin Proudmoore is a shame to the Alliance”
And now it seems Derek Proudmoore is off to hoin the Horde
Next Jaina will take down his statue in the Palace and replace it with Saurfang’s.
A sizable portion have been telling us how much they love Sylvanas despite everything, and want to go to war against everyone else.
I mean can you disagree? Targeting civilians = cowardly act
They can feel free to prove me wrong in the future by making up for their crimes, but currently that’s exactly what it is and so far there are 0 signs of regret or the will to make up for it
So yes, I still stand to it.
That’s not an edgelord opinion. Personally, I just don’t see why the opposite faction gets a pass to not be treated like all the other groups we deal with.