Reckoning after yesterday's patch

How reckoning is currently scripted is completely wrong, an example of how it should work can be found in Loke 2 a famous pally vid from vanilla.

In this video at 0:20 he attacks zeromancer with a few stacks of reckoning, he then targets himself while gaining more stacks (changing target), then aggressively targets zeromancer again at 0:24 while being out of range of auto attack swings (shown by the messages on the screen), he then casts Hammer of Justice, then moves into range to and unleashes a reck bomb the second his auto attack is in range, without him losing any stacks due to being out of range or changing targets.

This is not how reckoning functions at all in classic, if you are out of range you lose your stacks, if you change target you lose your stacks and now for no reason at all you lose your stacks.

You then see him target himself again and then unleash another reck bomb at 0:34 seconds.

again at 0:52 seconds and then at 0:55 seconds without disabling auto attack he unleashes a full reckbomb on the warrior the second his next swing is up…

The current version of reckoning isnt even close to accurate and needs massive overhauls… just look at actual footage of the game, rather then making it up on the fly.

Further references of how reckoning should actually work can be found throughout the video as it shows again and again how the talent should actually work.


I’m replying here just to confirm that reckoning is behaving incorrectly now.

Sometimes stacks are completely lost entirely, plus you only use those stacks on next auto attack.

I remember reckoning falling off randomly all the time back in vanilla.

Just did some testing though, and all the old triggers don’t seem to be dropping them now, so I am not sure what is going on.

from what I can tell it is neither resetting swing timer NOR granting an additional hit on the next auto attack in AV. you can still bank charges if you don’t attack at all though. some have said they are dropped when mounting and I havent tested that yet

If you’re unable to provide evidence or personal experience on how the talent behaves before and after the patch or before in Vanilla and now in Classic, then this sort of comment isn’t really constructive at all and you are just looking to incite arguments.

You are referring to reckbombing, which still works sometimes but not always. While its one of the problems listed, its not the only one. The spell is behaving differently since the patch and even before the patch it wasn’t actually providing an extra attack unless you canceled your auto-attack.

There is something wrong with one of the core mechanics of the Prot tree and it needs to be looked into.

Before patch I did not notice stacks falling off save switching continents it seemed to be working perfectly fine. Right now in WSG reckoning works but in AV it does not work at ALL i have not been out in the world since BG’s so i don’t know about that.

All i know is it works in WSG. It doesn’t work in AV at all, what so ever. It’s completely broken does not even trigger attack timer reset.

it’s working for you Durindel?

hmmm i was testing this on mobs… and it seems to function completely different vs actual players, e.g when you are out of range you lose 100% of stacks… i dont understand whats going on the scripting seems uneven.

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I just did more testing for reckoning. I did the testing outside of SW, dueling with a warrior.

  • Auto Attack off - I got my charges and was able to use the bomb with right click or the spell book attack icon

  • Auto Attack on - I turned my back to him and stacked up the charges. I turned around and hit him, only one attack

  • Auto Attack off - Charged up, had him charge/stun me and fear me. I was still able to use the bomb

  • Auto Attack on - traded blows to see if I could get double hits. Very few double hits, mainly no change, some hastened hits

  • Auto Attack Toggle - I would stop attacking after each swing, start my attack right when swing timer was about to hit full. Worked 99% of the time with double hits

  • Start / Stop Macro - Does not work

  • Range - auto attack off, charged up, stepped away from him and right clicked out of range. Walked up to him and bomb worked

SmeetToday at 3:13 PM

Seems like there are additional script limitations in BGs (why /follow doesn’t work) It’s possible the fix was limited to bgs

here’s a history lesson on Reckoning over the course of Vanilla by way of Blue posts - what we do know for a fact is that the talent CHANGED multiple times over the course of the 2 year vanilla era:

Poster: Baconn at 5/25/2006 11:30:17 AM PDT
Subject: Guide to Reckoning V2 (Current 1.10)
A Short (And Subjective) History (Thanks Nidhogg)

Reckoning originally reset your swing timer + gave you the extra attack if you were in melee range. This was nice, but did nothing if they were behind you (rogue) or at range. There was a bug with this, where if you had a Reckoning attack but were stunned, your swing timer was bugged, and you would not be able to attack until you were crit again (to fire your reckoning off).

They patched this, and gave it its second incarnation. This was the current form minus the charges. This was the most fun you could have as a Paladin to date in my opinion. Unlimited stores equalled insta-shotting anyone with enough charges stored up. The fix was to give Paladins a way to still have the talent be useful (instead of useless by being stunned from behind) and also to fix the attack swing bug the original had.

Well Blizz didn’t like this new method of killing people. Sure it was situational, but it had adverse affects on PvE content. You could, if devoted enough time, one shot the outdoor Raid bosses. There are instances (I dont have the links) of a Paladin getting Kazzak to 50% and even killing him in one swing.

Blizz realized that they had struck gold with this talent fix but needed to fine tune it, so they added a reckoning limit, and voila. They should go one step further and explain the conditions it fails and call it working as intended… but whatever.

Poster: Pavonum at 5/7/2006 12:35:58 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Reckoning. Is it fixed yet?
It would appear that this particular issue is still active, but we are currently investigating the matter in our efforts to determine its cause and devise a more permanent resolution. In the meantime, Ochie, I’d like to apologise for any frustration this may have caused you during your battles.

Poster: Fangtooth at 9/12/2005 5:52:23 PM PDT
Subject: Re: “problem with reckoning”
We are aware of the issues with Reckoning, and we hope to have them fixed in an upcoming patch.

Poster: Hortus at 6/3/2005 2:52:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bug? Reckoning resets swing…
Thanks for the report. This issue has been noted and can be found here:

Poster: Tyren at 5/12/2005 11:32:06 AM PDTSubject: Hotfix - Paladin talent: Reckoning
We have hotfixed the Paladin talent Reckoning to stack a maximum of 4 times. This change will take effect the next time realms are restarted.

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I just want this talent to work as described:

“Gives you a 100% chance to gain an extra attack after being a victim of a critical strike”

This shouldn’t mean you need to toggle your attack or randomly lose extra attacks.

I dont want to use any kind of sit / stand or start / stop macros. This should just work as described. Crit = Extra Attack


this bug is also effecting hoj on warrior/paladin too

I spent several hours testing this and just wanted to summarize the problem areas I found:

  1. You will not gain charges if your auto attack is on and not facing your target.

  2. If you auto attack and trade blows with a target, you rarely get double hits. Seems like you will only get a double if you are crit right when your swing timer is about full

  3. In AV i do not get any charges from being stunlocked by a rogue. Tested twice in open world duel and it worked. No idea what’s happening there

  4. Had several 1v2 fights where I would completely lose all of my charges in AV. Example: Fighting a rogue and a shadow priest. The rogue was following behind me and crit me several times, while I was focusing the priest. When i got to the priest I only hit him with 1 attack.

  5. Random times I’ll have no extra attack or less then I should have

For the love of the holy light, Blizz please address this!


PenguinbasherToday at 2:59 PM

@Theloras There’s a very big possibility that whatever they did to is affecting rogue/warrior sword spec too
one of my guilds’ rogues is noticing that his sword spec isn’t going off anymore in AV, we’re going to test it tonight and see if they did indeed do a blanket change to all proc storage. I have no idea if you’ve heard from any other class on it or not. Super pissed it ruined our fun, but now it’s affecting everyone else too (in instanced content).

This has to be a bug, it has no set pattern and goes at random now. Blizzard please inform us what is going on here, I blew 50g on respec and now I cannot use a core talent.

Hi All,

I wanted to take a moment to provide some clarification around what changed in 1.13.3 with Reckoning. There were several systemic issues with extra attack procs behaving incorrectly, which we fixed in the patch. A secondary effect of these fixes were two notable changes to Reckoning:

  1. Reckoning stacks are lost when you mount up.
  2. Reckoning stacks are lost when you initiate an auto-attack against a target and cancel it before it goes off.

However, both of these behaviors were correct behaviors in the 1.12 reference client and as such are considered bug fixes. Both of these issues have been added to the “Not A Bug” list.

Additionally, when investigating the reports around this, we did discover another bug where Paladins will lose stacks of Reckoning if they are not facing their target or are out of range to attack the target when the Reckoning stacks are gained. This is not consistent with Reference client behavior, we have a fix for this now, and it should be fully live the next time we have realm restarts.

Lastly, while we appreciate the reports in this thread, there were many comments and replies that do not apply directly to this issue, or were unhelpful, and we’d like to remind everyone of the bug report forum guidelines. We will monitor and remove unhelpful or off-topic replies in threads like this. Keeping these threads on-topic and strictly comprising information that helps us find and reproduce bugs will help ensure that we can get these issues identified and fixed faster.

Thank you!


The hotfix described above is now live in this region, and will be applied during maintenance in other regions with their maintenance.

  • Paladins should no longer lose stacks of Reckoning if they are not facing their target or are out of range to attack the target when the Reckoning stacks are gained.
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We have a new hotfix incoming: