When it really comes down to it, clearly making a drastic change to how a classes talent works , so much that it becomes obsolete , as well as it not being the same as it was in vanilla you have to consider doing the same thing to other classes or lose customers, and lots of money. You completely destroyed a already subpar class, but ignore mages being able to sheep you for infinity, fear not breaking to damage, being able to die 100% to 0 in a fear, 20 second - 1 minute CCs with no cooldown, the list really goes on, you cant decide, hey fck this class, and not consider the problems with other ones.
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yet they’ve known for quite some time about Elemental Shaman exploiting double crits within the batch window…
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paladins shouldnt lose reckoning stacks when they mount up.
the stacks should be stored vs anyone, not just your current opponent.
whatever this ‘fix’ is, is clearly not consistent with this client version 15 years ago, and should be left alone.
what this says to me is that
developers do not want paladins to have a viable dps spec at all.
what they are doing is catering to warriors as far as melee, as they are indirectly stating that if you want to use a 2h weapon then warrior is where you need to be.
And warriors even more so with their stat/stop attack slam batch macro that allows them a free swing just like the HOJ batch.
Watch “Warrior One Shot [Slam is BROKEN]” on YouTube
all the while horde gets to keep windfury shamans above paladins, and their spell counterpart
elemental shamans get to be top tier ranged dps with elemental fury spell batching hitting mobs and players for 3k to 4k lightning crits.
how is/was reckoning even comparable?
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Stop overthinking. Just because they failed to understand how Reckoning works, and/or fixed a bug that happened to break Reckoning, doesn’t necessarily mean they had an ulterior motive to remove a viable pvp dps spec (not PvE, mind you). It may mean they’re incompetent in getting things right, just don’t over think their motives.
For all we know, this may also not be intended, and they might fix this. And also keep in mind, the war is popping Reckoning to accomplish all that he does in the video. So every 30min he’s able to obliterate things with Engineering. Not sure if that’s a good indicator of consistent results.
the entire point of Slam is that it has a cast timer - which means that your Auto-Attacks should not be able to go off while it is charging
using the stop attack macro let’s any Warrior have both go off at the same time which is a bug or exploit depending on how you want to view it
The fact that he said “this may not be intended” should tell you he has absolutely no idea what hes talking about and is just posting for the hell of it. Its obviously an exploit, anyone with any game knowledge of how auto attacking works with casted spells/attacks would know this. Also I wouldn’t say its overthinking, they obviously targeted rets and ret reck spec ONLY in the months that classic has been out and rendered reckoning useless right as BG’s came out, when other classes have way worse exploits and abusable abilities than ret but haven’t been touched, you’d be delusional to think otherwise.
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As far as my experience from vanilla, and reviewing many videos out there on Reckoning, it seems it is not functioning as “blizzlike” at all.
I do not remember ever losing stacks because I initiated my AutoAttack and the Rogue vanishes, or im CC’d and AutoAttack stops.
So how is the “not a bug” of Reckoning stacks dropping when toggling off AutoAttack, blizzlike at all?
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I am very disappointed with Blizzard. I played a paladin back in vanilla, and was excited when finding out about classic. I very much looked foward to playing a Reckoning spec pvp paladin, as I did back in the day. I leveled up to 60, putting much effort into the right gear setup. Reckoning is basically useless since the battlegrounds patch. If I had known that this talent was going to be changed to something completely different from vanilla wow, I would have just played a mage.
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I say that because I don’t use slam, so I’m not familiar with everything he’s doing in the video to know whether it was intended or not. I also don’t abuse the /start/stop macro when I did reck bombs back in the day, nor abusing HoJ procs, so I’m not concerned about that not working. If you think it’s ok to abuse that, then you’re quite the hypocrite.
What I am aware is that Reckoning isn’t functioning as it should right now, and that is on the Devs. I also used to be a Developer in various projects, so I’m aware of how coding one thing, could potentially break another. But it also happens with bad testing, and/or not enough testing. So I try not to wear tin foil hats and assume they hate Pallies, but rather, they just simply aren’t doing a good enough job to ensure quality fixes.
There is all these crazy hoops you have to jump through to supposedly get a bomb off. Then when multiple people are hitting you it just doesn’t work regardless. This is a bad joke at this point.
Can confirm, in AV it’s laughable because you’re almost always at least fighting 2 or more at a time.
Even in 1v1s, half the time I feel like reckoning just…doesn’t do anything. I went from having an absolute blast with 5 points into Reckoning to more or less wanting to un-sub. The talent makes even less sense than it used to.
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What I found so atrocious about these updates, and correct me if I’m wrong, was that the “patch notes” accompanying these reckoning changes just said “bug fixes”. I can’t help but wonder how many changes modern blizzard developers just file under “bug fixes”, never expounding upon the changes and requiring the community to figure it out.
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Yes, I too am quite annoyed at how non-transparent they are about these things. I mean, I get that sometimes it’s a bit much to note every single nuance of coding, and sometimes some things aren’t really worth writing too much about, but when things are done that breaks a major component of a build, it’s heartbreaking.
But then I’m also used to Blizzard being Blizzard and usually not fessing up to mistakes, or taking forever before acknowledging an issue. Hopefully this thread can get some additional attention. I say keep the concerns coming.
What i think happened is they fixed the start/stop attack HoJ bug and since the way they have reckoning implemented with the reset swing timer crap instead of actually gaining charges it broke it as well.(this was all obvious)
Then when they looked at what it actually broke they chose the 2 easiest to fix parts of it that didn’t require much to fix to shut us up. Then they claim “ohh its this way on our reference client” even though anyone that played in vanilla knows thats nonsense and anyone that watched videos from classic also know its nonsense.
I don’t expect much of a response from them at this point. They threw out their line about it being reference client and they aren’t going to easily admit they were wrong on examining how it actually works in the first place.
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It’s super heartbreaking, especially when the community finds out and is like “uh, fellas? what’s up with reckoning it seems broken” and THEN a blue post shows up “oh yeah we made changes X, Y, Z and now things don’t work lol”
Yeah it’s all around just a super bummer and honestly the only reason to play paladin DPS is for reckoning. That was my plan since day 1 and I got like 3 weeks of fun with Reckoning and a hand of rag. These changes definitely took the wind out of my sails in regards to WoW, I find myself choosing Path of Exile or CS:GO over WoW now- that wasn’t the case before these changes.
Its absurd, ret paladins already have to be berated daily and sh*t on every day by other classes because of the stigma with rets and how it underperforms in PvE and then youre gonna make an entire spec useless ontop of it ? I still cant believe they think they can justify the current state of reckoning.
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Lol, can confirm. I can’t tell you how many alliance trash talk me in AV because I’m ret w/ hand of rag. Truthfully I find it hilarious, but the sad reality is now thanks to the reckoning changes we fit the preconceived notion that ret is entirely useless even more.
Yeah, I totally get it, man. I was super stoked to start trying Reckoning again for BGs. Then when I respec’d, I’m like… w…t…f… why isn’t anything working?
I at least have Ret to fall back on, and I still have fun playing that style, but Reckoning was always a treat. I kept looking at posts to see if any fixes would be implemented but it just added more sadness when it sounds like the Devs don’t even know how Reck is played, and therefore, no immediate fix will be on the way.
At least you had some time with Reck. I was aoe prot gold farming for a while, so didn’t really get a chance to play with the Reck bombs as I had hoped to for BGs.
But yeah, totally hear ya.
Yeah man, I leveled completely as ret and been raiding since ret from day 1 of 60, Ive been sh*t talked every which way, and no I dont care because I know I perform well and still out dps OP classes in raid or whatever, but blizzard is really kicking rets while their down, I went through all that BS so I could smash people in pvp and they basically deleted reckoning. I cant think of a single thing that could justify it in its current state
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This is the part that kills me, man, and I see Blizzard do it in all of their games. They take something that IS FUN, that the community finds FUN, and they REMOVE it^. Same stuff happened to like half my builds in D3.
That’s why we’re all here playing video games, man. We’re not here to death grind to the omega-lul meta, we’re here to have fun.
^ Shaman spell batching double crit need not apply
^ Mage, Rogue, Warlock, Shadow priest CCs need not apply
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