Reasons NOT to add dual spec

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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Spec identity and Hybrids
Feral druids, why bring them with dual spec? A prot warrior with dual spec dps will be more useful. Hybrid builds like smite priest, Feral druid, restkin, exc. will be unviable because their strength of being flexible is now meaningless.

Gold sinks and why 1k cost WON’T work. You exceed that 1k gold cost in with 20 respecs, which is not difficult to do in a month for many players. Meaning through the life span of tbc classic, you would spend thousands of gold on spec changes and making dual spec cost 1k would not keep up with the gold sink spec changing is supposed to have.

Class design of rock paper scissor goes out the window because a reason to bring a Feral tank was because while their dps wasn’t great, it was still good for a “tank” meaning with dual spec class rebalance would be needed to have any reason to bring a Feral over a prot warrior who could just dual spec to dps. The reason dual spec wasn’t bad for wrath was the classes got much more balanced for their role of choice, example hunters got better sustained aoe, druids got their Feral and boomkin dps buffed. Wrath saw the bring the player not the class mentality where tbc was more focused on chosing classes/specs that compliment each other to be strong. This means being able to freely change specs with dual spec had classes designed for that in wrath, while tbc did not have this type of class design as some classes are reliant on specific talents to have reliable CC or interrupts.

More tanks?
Won’t have a noticeable impact, we saw this in retail when wotlk was live, it didn’t make a noticeable difference and is why blizzard added so many other changes down the line to try and get more tanks.

Lastly it was a Wrath feature, let’s save it for wrath were the game is designed for it instead of trying to force the circle peg of a wrath feature to fit in the triangle hole that is tbc classic. And I chose those shapes on purpose, they represent the class designs of each expansion.

Triangle is the rock paper scissors design on classes that tbc has. Triangke also represents how classes fill in for each other based on spec, example being the caster triangle is ele shaman for their totem, shadow priest for mana battery and arcane mage for raw damage buffed by the other two, this is one example of the triangle benefit classes had with each other in tbc, there’s a lot of other combinations. Circle is the rounded out and homogenized classes that wrath has and was designed around that, because wrath is when the game was designed around bringing the player, not the class comps, evidence of this is a lot of the raid utility each class/spec brought got generalized or put onto multiple other classes.

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This is why your parents don’t love you. It’s not because of your red hair. Actually let’s be honest it’s both.

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Very good points. I think hit the nail on the head with hybrids.

Also let’s be real the respec cost isn’t that big of a deal in BC. If you do your 2 dungeon, cooking and fishing dailies you’ve made over 50g. This isn’t classic amore where you legit have to farm gold for respecs. I’m not even trying to make gold, and I pull in 300-400 a day. I’d imagine I could make that in an hour if I really focused on gold making.

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I’d love to the stats behind this because most people that played within a community of that MMO had friends that always respec’d to tanking and heals. Just because you didn’t find it in your LFG queue, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. So please, provide stats before stating something like this as fact.

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I’ll bet 10k gold neither one of you newbs pvp lol.

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What does that have to do with the fact the gold is way easier to make in BC?

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I’d like to add that right now… in retail… where there is complete freedom in spec swapping there’s still a massive tank shortage. So I really don’t buy that reasoning at all.

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because the only farm a PvPer knows is ganking lowbies. they don’t have time for killing NPCs or picking flowers

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counter point, the amount of times I would like to pvp while looking for a dungeon, waiting for raid to form, whatever it is, i can’t because i would be a clown to waste so much gold on respecs. To the people saying gold is easy to come by… have you already crafted your bis? Got epic flying? Enchanted your gear? Gold goes by FAST in bc, I don’t care what you say

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Because it’s a complete waste of time. I’d rather spend gold on gear and gems. With how I play I could easily respec 5 times a day. Do a bg, respec do a heroic, respec do a bg…etc. claiming that it ruins hybrid specs is silly. If your guild is not bringing you because of your spec then that’s your guild issue not a dual spec issue. And as far as the tank issue you are completely wrong lol, if even 1 person picks up tanking instead of dpsing because of dual spec then it makes it better. End thread… add dual spec. Once again they gave pallys both seals and that changed things way more than dual spec which literally won’t hurt the game in any way. The “gold sink” only hurts players with less time to farm. It does nothing to people already buying gold or who have tons from classic. So you are hurting new people wanting to play tbc.

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Sounds like the people it hurts, are the people who don’t want to play tbc in the first place.

I can get behind the concept of a separate spec for PvP, but for everywhere? Buff my dps to be as good as locks and hunters and we can talk.

Also, I gotta say… it’s a bit rich of a lock to explain away the hybrid problem as a fault of guilds. I mean, you’re not entirely wrong… but it’s just a bit ironic to hear that from one of the FOTM classes of the expansion.

Adding a spell to a single class to promote equality between the factions vs every class in the game being able to perform two separate functions without penalty? Really?

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Lmao what? Because a new player who starts with nothing doesent want to farm gold for respecs and is forced to play a way they probably don’t want to because they would rather save gold for the thousand other things. Hmm makes sense… lmao attacking me because I play warlock very typical. I played private servers a ton and many of them had dual spec and guess what. It was wayyyy better and I didn’t hear a single complaint ever so to hear people complaining about adding duals spec just blows my mind here. But then again the stuff you nay saying dual Speccers say leads me to believe you have 10 IQ anyways.

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A new player? I’d expect a new player to be currently enjoying deadmines. Or if they bought the boost, they’d be working through hellfire peninsula. I wouldn’t expect a new player to be even thinking of end game progression. You aren’t talking about new players, let’s not act like you are.

… I didn’t attack you, I stated that it’s ironic that the FOTM class is acting like this won’t be a problem for the non-FOTM classes. What do I bring as a druid? I bring the ability to provide middle to bottom tier dps, a few buffs, and the ability to simultaneously off tank at a moments notice. That is what I bring. Dual spec instantly removes one of those boons. If you’re going to take that away from me, then you HAVE to buff the other boons.

Which is literally what they did in wrath… where feral druids are one of the stronger DPS classes.

I see irony isn’t lost on you. You get insulted for being attacked (of which you weren’t) for being a warlock but then instantly resort to insults…

I don’t think you know what a hybrid class is… And you clearly don’t know what the hybrid tax is. Again, if you’re going to take away my classes defining boon to a raid… you’re going to have to buff something else. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

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Easy fix, make it so you can only change specs with it while in a rested zone. Then thoose specs would still be good. would have to hearth / port to change your spec and be resummoned just like you do now.

Most people that i know dont respec at all atm, but would buy the dual spec. So well it would save gold for some people that respec way to often like me. It would suck more gold out of the economy overall. If this is such a big deal for you then charge 5k, or make it like goblin engi, were you get an item that sllows you do it but expires every month and you have to renew it with gold.

basically the same point as your first one, also fixed by my suggestion.

this is somewhat true. Dual spec wont make the tank shortage dissapear, but it will slightly help. I tank 5-10 mans and heal 25 mans. There have been several times were i would have run a dungeon before raid but i was in my holy spec so couldnt. For the most part though, dual spec will only help the tank shortage for friends and guilds. most players wont tank for pugs if they get it but will for friends, so make friends!

So what if it was a wrath design, its one that if implemented correctly would cause literally no harm as ive shown. It has no effect on anyone other than the person using it despite your efforts to say it does.

Not even gonna touch the nonsense with shapes.

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I mean the hybrid thing is arguable but it’s a moot point. My main point for you. Your a Druid. Literally one of the best classes in tbc. You are the best healer in tbc and the best tank in tbc. You want the best dps to? Moonkin dps actually pumps. It might not be the best but it’s better than any mele dps atm lol.

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Again you just sound ignorant? Boosts are in the game. You think a new player who came into tbc can’t hit 70? The game isn’t hard? Lmfao I’m really confused about this entire comment. A new tbc player doesent want to do endgame? You are speaking opinions and assumptions. Just stop dude

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So because they made one change that means they should turn BC into retail? They gave both factions seals why not add LFR, why not add xmog, battle pets. Dual spec came in WotLK. If you don’t like it unsub till then.

And thats exactly what some people don’t want. Some people think your spec should a choice, and changing it should have consequences. Your spec is part of your class identity. At the end of the day 50g isnt a big deal. And if you have to respec 5 times a day you either need to make sure you have the gold for it change the way you play.

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No my point is this was a major change not some small qol change that only benefits players and does nothing to the original game play. Dual specs makes more people continue playing. It makes people pvp more thus fixing que times a bit. It makes it easier to find dungeon groups and raid groups and makes people better geared so they can spend their gold on gear and optimization.

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As a side note, the one main reason I played classic and TBC classic was to relive the glory days of the hybrid tax. Absolutely best game design ever - classes that have only a DPS option are better at DPS than the hybrids that can also tank or heal (or both).

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It doesn’t matter how big the seal change is, that’s irrelevant. This is BC classic, not WotLK classic. If you demand WotLK systems be added to BC you’re just gunna be disappointed because it won’t happen.

Complain all you want I don’t think we’ll be seeing a blue post titled “Dear Phozon” where kaivax posts " Phozon, we’ve seen your feedback, and we’ve decided to release all The WotLK systems you personally want into BC classic because we made new seals available to both factions"

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