Really? No Flying in next patch?

[Pixistyx-moon-guard]

Here is my proposition: Have an NPC somewhere that can toggle old style and new style. Old flying will disable the appearance of glyphs.

My concern is that, if one can just switch mounts on the ready, stamina means next to nothing.

[Fostracize-frostwolf]

@Shadybolt-thrall

Which isn’t what I said

I quoted you.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Shadybolt-thrall

@Grrumm-dawnbringer

yeah, the wife has motion sickness something fierce

You can change the video settings when using a dragonriding mount - has she tried changing any of the settings?

Want to try that again?

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Shadybolt-thrall

This isn’t a slippery slope argument though, this is in particular dealing with percieved “fairness” issues

It’s the same one we’ve been shooting down since people started asking for static flying.

“First you’ll want flying, then you’ll want it to be faster, then you’ll want it to be added to races, then…”

Slippery slope argument. We’ve been hearing it way too often.

@Fostracize-frostwolf

Other than players enjoyment and freedom to traverse the virtual world however they want? Yeah I see what you mean, horrible for the health of the game.

And screw druids, all the mounts we got, etc!

[Maizou-proudmoore (Maizou)]

@Gaymerbear-bronzebeard

So you’re telling us we can never old world fly in Dragonflight

Ion literally told us we would be able to, so people need to start calling him out.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Fostracize-frostwolf

I quoted you

Yes, a small portion that is by far not indicative of the actual argument made

That’s called cherrypicking

[Nora-misha]

I’m okay with this. Gimme that faerie dragon mount!

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Shadybolt-thrall

You can change the video settings when using a dragonriding mount - has she tried changing any of the settings?

Those settings don’t help everyone. And they certainly don’t help those with visual and brain disabilities who had no issue with regular flying.

Whether you want to play devil’s advocate over “they’ll want it to go faster” or not, it’s not going to go faster and it’s not going to work with races. So there’s no reason it cannot stay for those who need it.

[Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow]

@Shadybolt-thrall

What are you even talking about?

I’m not saying “remove accessibility” from the game, I’m saying add more …

You’re talking about never implementing normal flight in Dragonflight content, and trying to come up with some solutions that will only take care of some of the issues. How will having more flight points help people get up to inaccessible nodes?

@Shadybolt-thrall

we know when you create artifical inequalities that perpetuates issues, it doesn’t make them go away or makes them better - it makes things worse

Talk about projection. All your band aid fixes represent artificial inequities. Replacing something some people find difficult with a different problem.

@Shadybolt-thrall

I want more options added to the game

In some future expansion. Right.

@Shadybolt-thrall

I will not argue in bad faith just because I personally want something I wished had existed when I needed it

So people who need this should just be quiet and let people who aren’t interested in solving this problem in real time handle it.

@Shadybolt-thrall

I am well aware, and we aren’t going to see any changes except a year or two from now - that’s why one make suggestions now rather than tomorrow

What you’re saying is that even though there is already a solution, even though you will be upset if someone complains they want to go faster, you want Blizzard to start working on something that will never happen.

@Shadybolt-thrall

I’m not going to make excuses for something which I fundamentally will make things worse for everyone because we know from other examples in the real world and from psychological studies that artificial inequalities are some of the worst things imagineable to people, so if you add those you need to create an off-set to make those changes worthwhile enough

You keep making this “artificial inequities” claim as a good reason for dragonflight to NEVER be made playable for those who are currently unable to play it. I don’t know why you keep creating artificial inequities as your “solution” to the problem of people who can’t play the game right now, but that’s what all of your suggestions are.

The idea that millions of disabled players who can’t currently play the game are going to come back and annoy you by wanting to be able to play your game, I think you need better criteria. Your “solution” is to have everybody quit who wants to be able to play the game fully and enjoy it. Or do you want them to keep paying even though you have no solution to the problem that keeps them out of the game right now?

[Fostracize-frostwolf]

@Shadybolt-thrall

Do I believe it would be good for the game overall if “fly swimming” came back into the game? No, I honestly don’t - and I see no reason that it would actually be more beneficial for the game’s overall health

Here I’ll quote you again so you can explain how this was taken out of context.

[Ataxerxes-dalaran (Ataxerxes)]

Or, simply have the toggle — however implemented — disable glyph collection while static flying is enabled.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Sendryn-sentinels

It’s the same one we’ve been shooting down since people started asking for static flying.

I literally have no idea what you are even talking about at this point

@Sendryn-sentinels

“First you’ll want flying, then you’ll want it to be faster, then you’ll want it to be added to races, then…”

That’s what you are saying I’m not saying that in the slightest - I can add though that the way to “solve” this would be to make them equal in speed but then we are back to the same problem I pointed out about one being percieved to be better than the other

Again, this is dealing with psychology - or do you somehow think that FastPasses doesn’t exist or something?

@Sendryn-sentinels

Slippery slope argument

Repeatedly saying the same thing doesn’t make it a slippery slope fallacy

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Shadybolt-thrall

I literally have no idea what you are even talking about at this point

I’m talking about this:

@Sendryn-sentinels

Whether you want to play devil’s advocate over “they’ll want it to go faster” or not, it’s not going to go faster and it’s not going to work with races. So there’s no reason it cannot stay for those who need it.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Shadybolt-thrall

If you have two options and one is far superior than the other, that creates implicit elitism and classes of people - you can’t get people to change their way and you can’t balance the feeling of difference that creates
Does it matter in the short term? Nope
Long-term it absolutely murders people’s interests in games and events when these are the options

Do I think there should be more options? Sure
Do I believe it would be good for the game overall if “fly swimming” came back into the game? No, I honestly don’t - and I see no reason that it would actually be more beneficial for the game’s overall health

@Shadybolt-thrall

Even in terms of this one complaint that is genuinely the only real good argument against it (yes, there are others - the problem is that there’s almost always universally a solution to those things meaning that they aren’t so much problems as much as ‘things to deal with’ but yes there are other critiques that should be taken into account)

I’m not a designer so I don’t have the solutions but … just to spitball ideas - why not expand on the flightpath system? Add a functioning whistle back into the game and add “custom” flightpaths where you have more “nodes” on the map where you can fly to, that’d be a way to add more accessibility options to the game whilst also benefitting everyone (since a crucial element of it to be more seriously proposed you’d have to make it useful for the most amount of players and both of these systems would be practical for a lot more than just people who require additional help)

I am arguing for good solutions, not the most basic barebones ideas that benefit next to no one - you want change? Then you gotta advocate for something which works as accessibility option and provides a benefit for other people

Or do you seriously think that ramps only ever exists for wheelchairs?

[Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow]

@Shadybolt-thrall

That’s what you are saying I’m not saying that in the slightest

You are indeed saying that they will complain, and that’s enough reason to keep them from being able to play the game they paid for.

@Shadybolt-thrall

I am arguing for good solutions

What you are arguing for is no solution anytime soon, and a patchwork solution at sometime in the distant future.

“We will think about this and take it into consideration in future planning” is something Ion has said in the past about various issues.

Is that you, Ion?

[Betrollinmon-area-52]

@Encephalon-pagle

Also for whatever reason, Dragonriding fans feel like having the option of both is bad and awful and devalues their enjoyment of Dragonriding… somehow? I don’t get it either, but you see how quickly they come out of the woodwork any time someone expresses disappointment

They sure do! Not just this topic neither.

I have yet, in every thread that a players asks for regular flying, i never, ever see the players asking for regular flight say they want DR to be taken away.

Not a single time.

[Cayna-hyjal]

The best and simplest and best solution is to enable normal flying since it already exist in DF.

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Shadybolt-thrall

I am arguing for good solutions

But you aren’t. When the simple answer for the majority of disabilities is static flying, all you’re doing is causing more issues.

Static flying isn’t going away and should be added at some point to DF for those who need it. It already exists in DF.

It’s just that simple.

[Pixistyx-moon-guard]

It should be restricted as one or the other. You should not be able to use dragon flying and normal flying together without a switch that has some kind of timelock or has few accesible locations. I think it would be best implemented this way.

[Cayna-hyjal]

I really wouldn’t care since I much prefer normal flight.