I played vanilla, I was a healer priest. Where’s the priest tank spec for them?
For balancing purposes, each different role a class can perform should be considered exclusively from any other role. It’s the only way to go.
The fewer roles a class can do, should make them slightly stronger in their roles ~5% max difference. ALA “Pure” dps classes (Rogues, Locks, Mages, Hunters)
Given we have dual specs available, I would assume rets would have one focusing on utility for certain boss fights and a straight-up dps spec for the other fights.
That’s what I would do, and it’s what Serrannah basically said they do.
Yeah Blizzard why haven’t you completely changed the class identity for priests to accommodate this person’s desires?
You can go full dps spec as ret and still get Aura Mastery. This is what I use for most fights.
If my DSAC is needed, I have my dual spec that does slightly less damage, but exchanges AM for DSAC.
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Give it up Blade. Your logic does not track. Prot paladins don’t care about Ret buffs, and should not be held accountable for them.
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That is what you do but the utility spec isn’t as useful, or needed, as it was for the first few weeks on some bosses. There are some ret paladins who get to play the entire raid in their higher DPS spec but it isn’t the majority that can do this at the moment, and some will likely never be able to make that swap depending on their guild. I’ve slowly been allowed to make the swap on some bosses but it will be awhile before our Algalon kill is clean enough for me to do this myself.
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While we’re at it, where’s the tank spec for rogues and hunters? Hell, where’s the tank spec for every class?
Why does Bladetsar give me Futurama Nixon vibes???
Also, where’s my healer spec? Wouldn’t have to struggle to level my disc if my DK could heal.
Oh man, you have no idea how correct you are. Still, I persevered as Ret, and got HOR/T2.5 out of pure spite.
And sometimes it helps secure a HM kill. A worthy trade.
Normally yes, but I also PVP, so my other spec is focused around that. Just reached 1600 and got 3/5 Furious last night.
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I side a bit with Bladestar on this one. Spec is not class. While role is important it’s a solid category less important than class as a whole.
So, if we’re talking viability no class has ever not been raid viable and every class has had at least one desirable raid spec/role.
While Warriors as a class had viable specs in wotlk we didn’t have any spec or role which was desirable in Nax - as we’ve argued, this is now starting to change so it’s largely a moot point as we prepare for TOGC.
But for sake of argument, having to reroll class to be viable is a lot worse than having to change specs and role:
- Because you can know what specs and roles you may be restricted to well before rolling a class and have confidence at least one will be viable.
- Because developing your chosen class over time is a significantly higher investment than developing in your roll.
- Because not having class variety makes the game less interesting and more homogenous - boring entering groups where everyone plays the same class with the same suite of core skills.
Ultimately I don’t think the “swings and round abouts” approach to balancing specs works well and it doesn’t work at all when applied to whole classes.
But to me this whole line of argument is irrelevant because we aren’t currently in this situation anyway. We were arguably in Nax but Nax is done (and was easy enough it probably didn’t matter).
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Rets, however, are consistently brought because they can cleanse the tank of fusion punch, save the raid with a well-timed Dsac, provide both the boomkin and arcane mage raid-wide haste and damage bonuses, salv a guy who’s super high on the threat table, aura mastery…
Ever since the update I haven’t had a problem getting insta invited to whatever I want to do, if a pure damage class can’t even do the same DPS as a spec that’s mostly brought for its utility, there might be a problem.
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Pure damage classes are Rogues, Hunters, Warlocks, and mages. They are well ahead of rets.
What I meant is that Warriors’ PVE dps spec really only brings damage… If the damage sucks then they’re kind of pointless
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We would usually bring a warrior for sunder, but most of them don’t even put sunders up. I’m all for bringing the player and not the class, but unfortunately the remaining warrior players are generally bad and living out some class fantasy of being ‘big strong man with giant weapon’.
Night elf male warriors are usually an instant kick.
That’s they thing, the damage doesn’t suck. As long as a class role doesn’t fall 10% under everyone else when speced properly it’s a non issue.
I would absolutely want fury buffed if it was 10% behind ret/feral are currently at.
You cannot do 1v1 comparisons from one class to another and try to justify a buff based solely on that.
It’s not the NE Warriors who rolled the toon in Classic Vanilla for kicks and giggles that are not sundering. It’s the Dreanie parse monkey rerollers that aren’t. Because if you’re the one stacking sunders you’re almost guaranteed to not be the one getting a parse.
And here’s the rub - we judge the quality of a player by how meta they are and how well they parse, but not by how well they support their team. The playerbase culture is part of the problem here and why people think their class is broken when it performs okay.
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Here’s the thing about that, if you’re trying to parse, you probably aren’t playing a warrior. All of the vanilla era warriors rerolled a long time ago, probably playing unholy Dk’s or warlocks now. The remaining warriors just seem to be simple minded players. you ask them to sunder, they’ll put up 1 or 2 on each boss, and then let them fall off.
What really bothers me is that sunder helps their dps too, but they just don’t understand that.
I think you’re making quite a lot of baseless value judgements about the kind of people that choose to play a class in a video game. It says more about you and your preconceptions than anything else.
The point you raise is just stereotypes that inform a bias you have.
Also, every class has issues getting dpsers to use utility especially when they perceive it as a personal dps loss. We should start adding the bonus dps from utility to the parses of the player that uses it I reckon.
I’m always putting up Shattering Throw and most of the sunders - my parses are average and I’m a night elf. But my team values me because I’m a team player and don’t die all the time to stupid stuff. Parses aren’t everything. Neither is trying to be meta.
But it’s this attitude that if you’re not a 99 parser you’re borderline incapable of playing that really undermines a lot of the fun and has people anxious about whether their class is viable - even when it is. I love people min maxing and pushing parses, but it’s not the be all and end all. It’s okay to be a purple parser and put sunders up. It doesn’t matter if you chose a class or race combo that’s not meta. Being middle of the pack is fine - Blizzard doesn’t need to intervene.
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