It has just as much to do with lore as timewalking, running dungeons, etc.
no it hasnt
Like raiding
Or running any other dungeon.
Based on what?
Fortunately a ton of people disagree. Going back to “raid or die” is not acceptable for a large portion of the playerbase.
We disagree and that’s ok.
But Blizzard has publicaly acknowledged that participation is trending down and we already know M+ is a small percentage of the playerbase anyway. However, Blizzard did say they are not concerned with “raw participation numbers” but are more concerned with “fun gameplay”. They also put a survey out asking for feedback about removing the timer in favor of a death counter like they are using in delves.
The writing is on the wall. Changes are coming.
It’s just my opinion as someone who has been playing D&D and MMORPG’s since I was a teen. The type of gameplay that M+ offers should not be in a MMORPG. The same arguments that were made 7 years ago during BFA about M+ ruining the player experience in other parts of the game are still being made today but now there are more voices speaking up about it along with M+'s own community eating it’s own about how bad it is.
I agree.
Remove mythic raiding as well. It doesn’t make sense lore wise, and they even introduced solo story mode so it’s really not needed.
/rollseyes
say what
Didnt say I am against changes
Awesome. I have been playing MMORPGs since I was a teen also. And I think the type of gameplay that M+ offers should be in a MMORPG.
Once again. Why is going back to “raid or die” better?
While I think this is the change most likely to happen, I would like to see a season where we have a delve style interface for keys just to see how it plays out. I’d rather see rating tied to depletion much like they are doing for S2 and +12s. Tie the KSM and KSH achieves to +7 and +10 respectively.
chef’s kiss
Sorely needed. I’m in the process of gearing a rogue for S2 cause the tier sets are so good looking, but the low key range is a nightmare. I don’t care if some think it’s degenerate gameplay, I miss being able to list a baby key and see the list fill up with heavy hitters knowing it was going to +up at the end. Blizzard needs to do something to keep engagement in the lower key brackets, cause right now, it’s a bunch of delvers who fell backwards into gear and have no idea what they are doing in a key.
Everyone claps
I feel like this really needs to be baseline at this point. The amount of Stonevaults I ran for a shard is off the freaking charts, not to mention the Batols before that. If I checked RIO for my pally, I’m pretty sure over half of my keys this season have been in those 2 instances. That does not feel good.
I never said anything about this.
I said, M+ is a mini game and participation numbers are trending down. Blizzard acknowledged this. They are concerned with “fun gameplay” and that changes are coming.
I think, it’s a mobile game and should be removed from retail entirely due to the negative impact the timer and style of gameplay it has had on retail.
if M+ is removed, what do you think happens?
o.O
Ok.
So if m+ is removed. We return back to “raid or die”
What do you think happens if m+ is removed?
Well from a business point of view. Something would be done to retain the M+ playerbase even if it is a small %. Participation numbers are already way down and continuing to go down. So I would ask how to make the game fun for this group of players while maintaining the fun in other content.
If it was removed, which I don’t think it will be. Something else would take it’s place. Heck, delves already have in a way. It’s another reason participation is down in M+. Same if not better rewards with no hassle and it’s faster.
If m+ are removed, how do you not advocate for delves to be removed?
You also did not answer my question.
How does one get high end gear with m+ removed?
I know delves have a very small % of participation numbers, so that cant be it.
I wouldn’t advocate for delves to be removed right now because Blizzard has said they have been succesful. So much so that new areas are being created just for Delves.
Currently, if you remove M+. The top-end gear would be from Raid, PVP, and Delves. Back in 2004 and for many years after it was just Raid and PVP. As a fact in WotLK when the subs reached over 12 million there was only Raid and PVP. So taking a mini-game out of retail that has a few hundred thousand players out of 8+ million isn’t a bid deal. Also, those few hundred thousand M+'s play 2 or 3 toons which lowers the participation even further. That is why Blizzard said, “We are not concerned with raw participation numbers”. They aren’t because not that many players play M+ currently. How many do Delves isn’t public knowledge to me but the fact remains they are creating new content for it and have said it’s been popular.
I wish people would stop making this argument cause it’s just not applicable. WoW was at it’s height in LK because of so many other factors. If we use that logic then Legion, which is widely panned as one of the best expansions where m+ was introduced, should be the metric for how much the playerbase wants to key.
Also, delves are as dead as fried chicken right now and have been for a while.
If by currently you mean at this point in the season then you’re right cause no one is participating in anything. If you mean the season, then keep huffing that copium. Removing m+ would be as disastrous as removing raiding, maybe moreso.
So all your reasons about m+ needing to be removed no longer matter.
Delves dont give top end gear.
Your numbers are largely made up.
Its hard to take you serious when everything about your comments are either double standards or made up.
For TWW : 20% of people have KSM. 32% have KS Explorer.
M+ is going away about as much as arena or LFR.
Having dinars available at some point to cut down on farming or to help alts gear up is much better. Having mechanics reworked to be less punishing is also a lot easier.
38% have KSM
18.6% have KSH
You’re both right. He’s looking at total wow players while you’re looking at total m+ players.
Where’s the data for total? If that’s Data for Azeroth it’s completely unreliable and out of date.
Is most of Data for Azeroth out of date? Seems like when you click on someone’s profile randomly, it’s 2weeks up to 3 months+ out of date.
It’s “okay” if you are looking for past data, but you are absolutely right in that the data can be months behind. It even shows me as having zero achievements even though my profile is public.
The total population it pulls is also wildly off.
https://www.dataforazeroth.com/stats/summary
3.3 million total characters World Wide? There’s more unique ret paladins logged in M+ alone than their entire database.
It’s true though. There was only Raid and PVP.
I haven’t done a delve since the anniversary event stuff started. Without any statistics being posted from Blizzard this statement is just your opinion from your perspective.
I’m referring to the interview Blizzard did showing a graph with participation numbers declining week after week since the beginning of S1. They also admitted that “participation numbers are down” but they are more interested in “fun gameplay” and that changes are coming.
Sure, so by that logic, we can infer that Mythic plus is one of the best additions to the game. Legion is generally lauded as the best expansion Blizzard has release. Mythic+ came about in Legion, therefore Mythic+ is a great addition to the game.