PuGs need to realize even in organized guild runs you still lose gear to other people
Go on and explain how personal loot fixes this.
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People keep saying this as a perk of PL, but it didnt work that way.
During SL, the loot addon tracked who picked up Anima or not. If you didnt loot the boss, you wouldnt get anima, and were named/shamed for being greedy and wanting it to yourself.
Sure it avoided the loot message popping up, but still created drama either way.
I dont think it’s a “logical fallacy”
I think it’s a slippery mind game, dont fall for it!
Think, everyone needing on an item, where the computer uses a rolling system in the background to determine who wins the piece of gear without restrictions. Sounds awefuly like personal loot =P
Maybe go in expecting nothing but having fun doing it and you’ll maybe be surprised with a piece of loot too! That’s how I like to see it.
Raiding with a good group of people also helps, like your friends or guild. I know your post is about pugs but that is just how they are. Plus it’s not always clear why they roll in items too. I see bis stuff drop and I have a different item of the same level just upgraded all the way… I’d roll need on it! You also get another chance at stuff at vault.
That’s 3 whole items just for you to choose from. 
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Without any of the protections that either PL or GL have. If you’re arguing in favor of the best system for people who don’t need to equip gear, you hit it on the head.
Or you’re just being disingenuous, hard to tell really.
Exactly. And in PL, that same mythic geared player could win a lower ilvl version of the same item they already have equipped. The only way they could Need roll on it in GL is if it had a socket or tertiary stat
You do understand that you can loot some items and leave some on the body right? So they could pick up the gold, the anima and leave their PL items on the body.
Sorry,
Its been a long day.
I tried to make a joke, sounded funnier in my head.
The other poster was suggesting to get rid of loot systems and impliment a system that would basically be the computer selecting the winner based off of rolls done agaisnt the raid. They were saying this mockingly and I tried to suggest it sounded like the start of personal loot (being the computer rolling everyone agaisnt each other to determine who wins loot and who doesnt).
Again, sorry. Sounded funnier in my head.
Yes, but that goes agaisnt your thoery of not looting bosses to avoid drama. We have seen how both looting and not looting both lead to drama and issues.
The fact we have to mention selective looting of bosses as a prevention method to drama is disheartening.
No, my theory was they didn’t loot the actual item. Regardless it doesn’t change the intent I was trying to get across.
That’s how you start a post?
I do recognize this is a reply midway through a lengthy exchange you’re having with Snozo, so my apologies if I miss some context here.
With that said, the issue I have is with where the line should be drawn. Yes, a 20+ item level bump on a main-stat bearing piece when no special effects are involved will basically always give an upgrade to item level on main stat alone. But as we draw that item level number down to being closer together, the secondary stats and/or things like sockets might start to push the balance the other way. I highly suspect there is some spec and some realistic stat distribution where a 3 item level loss of main stat for a better statted set of secondary stats would be worth it. Whatever the loot system is, it still has to determine a winner when we are outside the painfully obvious cases even Stevie Wonder could see.
There are a couple things this doesn’t consider:
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Even though the default option for most is to roll on everything, there are still people who will select greed, transmog, and pass due to their own internal value system. If even one person elects to do so, everyone in contention for that item has better odds than if it were still personal loot where that person had no agency in the matter.
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There are restrictions in group loot that do not exist with personal loot. When a player has a given item at the same or higher item level/track, they will be prevented from rolling need. This will further increase the chances of everyone else eligible for that item to win. Personal loot had no protections against giving a player the same item they were already in possession of.
So then when I agree to go resto for a raid group that needs a healer more than the DPS that is my main spec, I’m stuck rolling only on resto gear? I really don’t think the end result of such a change would be very positive on the game…
No worries!
I think the current system is working pretty well. I think one should be allowed to roll need on a 457 champion if you are wearing maxed out 463 veteran.
For real. Preach. Hit the button lets see who wins.
Working as intended, to funnel your cash to a player who rolled need on an item they couldn’t use.
There are also restrictions we were told would be implemented but clearly were not. Players were told they could roll need on multiple duplicates, but would win only once. Instead, we keep hearing of players who won multiples of the same item that other people were also rolling need on.
And nice touch that a player can roll need on every item off a boss, win every item, and put them up for sale. I guess he’s probably taking paypal.
I think this can get very convoluted and would question how the determination would be made. As it stands, you can only need an item that has the potential to be an upgrade. I was in a pug group and won a roll for a ring that was a lower ilvl, but at max upgrade was a significant improvement, and it had a gem slot. Another member of the raid messaged me for about a half hour, questioning my stat priority, asking about simming this vs that. It was an upgrade, i won the roll. Thats that.
Also doesn’t help when Blizzard has designed the main source of content to be mythic plus and designing raid loot for a particular role to be coveted by other roles. For example, DPS and healers rolling on the tank trinket from fyrakk because they’re trying to push 25 or higher keys. Or healers and tanks rolling on DPS trinket because of mythic plus. As a mistweaver monk my best trinket is the t-swift trinket but I can’t even roll on it even though it has intellect. I have to have somebody else roll on it for me and then give it to me. But when you look at top mythic plus mistweavers, they usually run that trinket. Two weeks in a row a heroic tank trinket from fyrakk went to a healer or DPS. It sucks but it’s on blizzard, not the player.
That’s odd, I do this every week and I’ve had none of my money funneled away, and definitely nobody’s funneled in.
Keep submitting bug reports. I’ve seen it working correctly many times though.
That’s not a M+ thing, we’ve been using stuff for DPS gains once we hit survivability since forever.