This design wedge between mastering pets v.s. coordinating with pets is entirely artifical and post-Legion. In reality SV doesn’t represent pets any differently to BM other than being physically closer to it in combat… which BM can do as well, anyway.
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something tells me that survival being melee isn’t the problem here, it’s that they design the spec to be played by geriatrics
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I think the constant MSV vs RSV very passionate debate does not help on design decisions and actually derailed the spec to what it is now.
Why not go back to the Legion core design of Lacerate, Mongoose Bite and Flanking Strike, without all the bloat and extremely frustrating talents (Mok’Nathal) and build from there ? No need to borrow KC from BM.
Then leave bombs as an option and remove the need for that tiny crossbow. Kill Shot for example could simply be replaced by a spell named “Impale”, or wathever you see fit to use with a polearm.
Or eventually, let us mog that crossbow into a xbow or gun we actually enjoy.
Lunge should be a 1 point node, 8y range was baseline during Legion.
Also, I think it would take little effort to add the old SV gamepleplay inside MM (except for tuning, but we aren’t there anyway) :
- Remove Explosive Shot from generic tree and replace it with Serpent Spread (procs on Multi-Shot and Carve/Butchery).
- Add old ES as an option in the Aimed Shot node. Rework Trick Shots to work with ES aswell, for example by dealing AoE damage around the affected target.
- Add Black Arrow as an option below L&L, and make it so it has a chance to proc L&L on each tick.
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yes, the most prudent move would be to listen to the people who enjoy and play the spec and not the people screeching that their vision of an abstract concept is not the dominant or relevant one
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The obvious problem thats going on is the blizz’s misinterpreted design in attempts to heal the divide between rsv and msv players. However, now that they said rsv isnt coming back then push the horrible ranger talent, they just continue to make things worse. Its worse bc instead of fully focusing on the melee playstyle, which is in DIRE need of help and the tree is god awful, they push these “flavor talents” into the tree. They are just dead weight, soaking up resources while the rest of the spec continues to suffer. We see this by the changes they made. Instead of making A+ changes to the tree, they made C+ changes and added ranger.
The way I see it currently, with the HORRIBLE feedback all these fanbois are giving blizz without actually addressing the tree’s issues, the spec will sit again until blizz decides to overtune it. Bc we all kno by meow that msv ONLY gets played when its overtuned.
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Most melee is pretty simple. Almost all of them can be boiled down to:
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one button macro for your primary 2-5 ability rotation.
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1-3 buttons that you play whack-a-mole with as they light up
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cooldowns that you use for either more power or more survivabily situationally.
Most the others are just smoother and more effective then survival hunter(outside current tier armor).
Will admit unholy dk is a bit of a plate spinner though.
They want Dracthyr Evoker to succeed, this is its expansion. It gets the power crown for the next 2 yrs.
I hope if this is the case they allow us to just use steady shot with the same crossbow that fires serpent sting.
I know no one is actually using steady shot now that’s surv but come on, is there any other class in game now that is actually still weapon swapping all the time?
Or, atleast let us equip a ranged weapon like back in the day. Could atleast be a stat stick and let us use some of these abilities without weapon swapping in combat
1 Like
This is false, you can swap weapons whenever you like, it just triggers a GCD.
Macro your weapon swaps with Disengage and Harpoon for best results.
Dnno Legion SV was quite interesting for PvP, they just still had some things unpolished like harpoon being pretty sloppy and us not having baseline disengage which made mobility more on the awkward side.
Quite frankly I get more of the vibe they want it to be more of a PvP oriented spec. There were some good ideas that existed in the Legion version that could have stayed, then BfA version was different and expanded on/improved to feel way more fluid by Shadowlands. Having WFB/WFI was definitely an improvement in functionality over dragonfire grenade/Explosive Trap. Lacerate and old flanking/throwing axes and having more melee abilities was nice. But also having serpent sting and kill shot as ranged abilities by Shadowlands is also something I’ve found enjoyable. Then some ideas like trap improvements that you had for SV was cool like the Waylay trap bonuses were pretty interesting plus Caltrops. If they’re going to sight Vanilla/TBC they could look back at old deterrence and counterattack as ways to give extra anti melee tools for SV that have a broad range of fluidity.
I don’t ever see it truly being super enjoyable for the PvE crowd but I do think it can be made to be far more interesting for PvP. A playstyle mix of poking from being at ranged and wanting to find windows to all in is interesting if there’s more time put into it but a style like that won’t be the best or something that works well in PvE, dnno if it’s the worst thing for us to just have specs that only work in a really good way in one area of the game. Worth considering when MM’s current playstyle has a far larger focus on working in PvE anyways which was our PvP spec for the majority of WoW (TBC->MoP with a few times at the start of those xpacs where BM or SV might be better, and then MM towards the late end of Legion was pretty good for PvP just from all the hard CC available and having instant damage again).
At the end of the day it seems they want to focus more on improving this version of Survival and making a million threads on it on why you want ranged SV back isn’t really going to do anything. I’d actually say better energy would be put towards MM and then getting some options to bring the older playstyle back in the MM tree. They can totally improve on what we have for the entire class in the direction they wanted to, I think it’s narrow-minded to believe it’s impossible. They aren’t going to give us a time machine outside of WoTLK classic but it’s better to just suggest more ways to improve what we have now.
8 Likes
It was pointed out to me earlier. For whatever reason, I was under the impression it was removed during SL’s cycle and I couldn’t remember seeing it re-enabled. Thus the assumption it wasn’t possible anymore. My mistake.
The problem with using shots currently, is the % penalty on the shots. If that is remove, then the shots would work.
I think they are going to use this method, use the little handbow to fie the shots, most shots they are speaking of have a CD. Currently there are fights where we need to disengage from then go back into melee. The proto fight, Rad fight, even the reclaimer fight, having a range ability beyond ST or AotE will help.
Its funny, all of the threads with RAnge Range RAnge in them and now they give us a few back and its like WTH Blizzarrd!!! What gives ? I myself, I could go with or without. But until I get a chance to try this new tree out and see how it interacts, I will hold judgement.
Gonna be honest, steady shot aside, the talent just increases abilities sv hunters we’re gonna choose any way, I would not be surprised if they remove steady shot from it and just rename the talent all together but I will say that moving out and steady shot spamming is a lot more enjoyable than aspect of the eagle
For the love of the god, make explosive shot MM ONLY, so i’ll never heard about bepples anymore.
You should not have to make macros for weapon swapping to play a spec at its base. They need to fix that
Nimox: The intent is every ability on the class side of the tree is usable by any spec, regardless of what weapon is equipped. It may not be in that state now, but is is planned. Barrage might be an exception to this, but Barrage is also much less mandatory as a connection point in an upcoming build.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/en/wow/t/feedback-hunters/1279513/11
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i wish they made all abilities usable with a 2H for SV so when u transition from melee to ranged (ofc with a dmg penalty like Steady Shot so its just poke dmg) its alot more fluid and i wish traps were off the GCD for SV^^!!
another thing is Steady Shot and Kill shot etc… should be us throwing a spear
You don’t have to.
You can, if you want to, with the knowledge that you are intentionally gimping yourself.
Just implement Sv black arrow ranged spec into talent tree already holy crap.
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Look at MoP sv. Copy and paste into dragonflight= Happy Hunters
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