The point you’re missing is the argument of how, apparently, it’s okay for SV to lean heavily on the pet aspects of the class, down to the point where it has literally borrowed/taken several abilities and effects that were/have been signature elements of BM for a very long time. Meanwhile, (R)SV did not actually share a single signature ability with MM during WoD, apart from actual class-wide stuff, yet it was accused of being too similar to MM, purely because it shared the common class fantasy aspect that is a focus on the use of a ranged weapon. That argument is especially funny considering how there’s a big difference between a burst oriented profile vs DoTs.
And no, this is not based on notions of “diversity” as of how the paradigm is, and philosophies are today, but on how it was in the days prior to Legion.
Because in the course of advocating a return of a RSV spec, Bepples has replied to countless posts advocating the MSV spec, unfailingly pointing out misinformation if it exists, and then supplying factually correct information, easily verifiable, in rebuttal.
Occasionally, Bepples has, I think, hurt others feelings,
possibly by questioning their basic innate intelligence. Also, Bepples ungently points out to people their fallacies.
For these reasons, Bepples is hated and vilified.
Also, there are those who have tired of Bepples constant, unwavering support for RSV. They complain, idanowhy.
By the way, Toxiktraktor:
I am in the middle years of my life. Also, I still love the woman that pushed me away, more than 35 years ago.
Hardly things to make fun of---- Son, these are BLESSINGS!
Yeah it would be like if we said that SV using ranged weapons made it the same thing as MM even though it played differently.
In all seriousness, SV’s pet interaction doesn’t feel like a different approach. It feels like BM’s approach. What’s worse is they then try to create the distinction by taking away from BM. That whole pet companionship thing was BM’s deal. I don’t like how they’re now trying to distance BM from that just to carve out a space for SV. Evidently many people see it the same way because they keep asking for more BM stuff to become shared with SV. I’ve seen posts including those of that diva on the community council demanding Exotic Pets for SV. That’s what happens when there are no longer established boundaries between what’s BM’s space and what’s SV’s space. And I’ll keep highlighting that hypocrisy because they supposedly made SV melee to avoid exactly this sort of thing.
I am thinking they should make a gun mage spec/class. And have old sv sort of playstyle for gun mage.
A duel-wielding pistol/gun spec would be nice. With more magic damage like SV had. That or 4th hunter spec. Although A healing or tank spec would have been nice.
Currently sv though has some aspects of old sv hunter. I did play it sometimes in random bgs in older expansions. It was nice but never really number beating due to some of the scaling on abilities.
why of every class in the game would hunter need a 4th spec? You kids seen feral being broke down into 2 different specs for a very good reason and now suddenly think every other class is entitled. Hunter of all of them would be the last that needs one, and none of them need one.
We hate the class so much we exclusively main it. Yep checks out. Theres that high school drop out brain at work there pumping as much cope into a failed argument per the usual.
he links WoD when the game was at 10 million to the current 1-2 million as a way to compare when a spec was the current fotm. Thats not what you would call factual. Its so blatantly stupid and full of reaching you would think hes 7 feet tall and not in a mid life crisis but ya, you know.
I dont care if he wants RSV back actually. Never once have I ever said I was. Thats not the issue. Its his harassment, trolling, stupidity, constant whining, delusional contradicting attitude. Try and keep up here.
You literally write essays and always end it with some version of “Survival being melee is the problem and if they kept it ranged it wouldn’t be”, so here’s the truth that apparently hasn’t been said, or you conveniently ignored: If Survival stayed range, it’d have the exact same build as it does now, just with Filler Range Shot and 6s~ CD Mutli Shot instead of Raptor Strike and Carve.
This idea that if melee Survival didn’t exist, that you’d have your “perfect playstyle” of Black Arrow, Explosive Shot, SS, and spammable filler? Yeah, that needs to end, because it’d never happen with the Legion redesign. You’d still be spamming a filler and throwing WFB, just from ranged. Maybe you think that’d be better because “it’s ranged and Hunters have always been ranged”, but things drastically change, especially when Blizzard feels there’s a lack of identity between the specs.
DKs always had different runes and shared diseases until they didn’t. Paladins had a ton of utility and mobility until they didn’t. Demonology had Metamorphosis until it didn’t. Survival had range until it didn’t.
Reroll, ask for a 4th spec, or quit, because when 11.0 alpha/beta starts, I’d rather have people contributing useful feedback for Survival than see your raging boomer posts, pining to replace the new for the old, for the 3 expansion in a row.
That’s a bold (read: silly) assumption. If it had remained ranged it would have most likely had a toolkit and playstyle based on what it was before. Maybe if they abruptly made it ranged again it would have a chance to have an identical playstyle to what it is now but even then it’s not likely.
Nevertheless it would still be a drastic improvement because the single worst thing about SV is being melee. It’s the primary reason why people aren’t playing it. Even Blizzard hasn’t pretended that this isn’t the case. They were asked about it during Legion and they identified that the main reason SV is a niche spec is because most Hunters don’t want to be melee. It’s just a needless element of the spec that makes it antithetical to the foundation of the class it belongs to and alienates most Hunter players in a vain attempt to chase melee class mains. Fact is the game is already full of melee and the most iconic part of Hunters is the ranged weapon. It was always a stupid idea that never made sense to take the ranged weapon away from SV.
Yes it would be an improvement. “Things change” isn’t an excuse. We aren’t dealing with an unpredictable force of nature. This is a team of designers that are… supposedly… capable of reason. It’s not an inevitable fact of life that we have class designers that make stupid decision and double down on them all the time. They could just get better class designers.
You’re trying to normalise the decision but making SV melee was far more drastic and destructive than any of those other ones. The only thing remotely close is the Demonology one because it also involved remaking a spec (albeit it was still a ranged DPS afterwards), but that doesn’t help your argument much when that was also a really bad decision.
There’s no normalising melee SV because it wasn’t a normal decision. It was out-of-left-field, arbitrary, and poorly-thought-out. No sensible person would have made that call. They had a moron in charge named Chad Nervig (Celestalon) and he made a series of terrible decisions all across WoW class design until he was shuffled off to Hearthstone and now we are still dealing with the mess he created years later.
When Blizzard makes a stupid decision that’s on them. It’s not up to the players to tread on eggshells and work around Blizzard’s nonsense. If we all just quit immediately without giving feedback when Blizzard made a bad choice there would be no hope for the game.
While I know it may make you feel better to drop the “just reroll or quit” line, the problem is quite a lot of people end up doing exactly that. In case you haven’t noticed, the player activity in this game has plummeted. You can even see it here on the Hunter forums. The activity is nothing like what it was back in Legion and earlier and a lot of the regulars like Guillotaur and Lazyguide who contributed tons of valuable feedback over the years DID quit. In those two examples I know for a fact Survival being melee was the main reason (because they told me) and they aren’t the only ones. The steep decline in this game’s playerbase isn’t sustainable and it’s this sort of bad class design that contributes to it.
Even major WoW influencers like Liquid Max and Preach have talked about how making SV melee was a bad call. It’s not just a handful of grumpy forum “boomers”. Survival is only going to get worse and worse in this sort of environment. So in fact the single most constructive feedback anyone can give for the spec is making it ranged. Without doing hat it’s just going to be a continuing story of decline and failure. That’s been the case for so long many people just assume it was always like that, but existing data from the time and SV’s current popularity in WotLK clearly disprove that.
If you think that’s wrong, look at how much constructive feedback people gave for SV in Dragonflight and it’s still turned out to be a dumpster fire. And that’s melee SV’s 4th expansion. All that time and effort, for more or less nothing. Thinking that just a little more constructive feedback will fix it? THAT is truly delusional.
Optimized rotations? Sir, back in those days, we had Class and Spec Design that a Dev could be proud of, which provided us with optimized builds, customizable to suit any inclination a player might have.
It’s true, that all Hunters shared the same specialty: Ranged Damage. What was different is how the different specs got the majority of that damage accomplished.
Those old guides? I scoured them when they were new. Mostly, they were confusing, we had so many more options then, more possibilities, different avenues, areas to excel in (or not), and countless different ways to ball it all up and earn the then common, now- seldom-seen moniker “Huntard”.
Have you played the Class? Lived the Class? Grown attached to a Spec of the Class?
Completely off topic, but Hog I went up against you 3 times in a row in arena skirms earlier this morning with the Spriest you were queing with. I played hunter when I first picked up WoW in 8.3, and remember trying to soak up every bit of info you put on the forums to try to get better.
Just wanted to say thanks for being a strong member of the community, and it was really something to play against you. The 2v1 you pulled in the last match that ended up with you killing me in the 1v1 stung just a bit less because it was you. Hope all is well!
It is! I’m playing an AOE Survival Hunter, and just throwing the traps, maybe an explosive shot, and then volleying it is so satisfying! I mean I can’t do dungeons with mobs 2-3 levels lower than me or I’m pulling away from the tank constantly and they give me awkward looks but, it’s still fun
Ya not that i needed any more fuel, but this seals it.
Mental gymnastics, generalist statements the purpoesly leave out details, insults, complete lack of willingness to engage with any concept that doesnt adhere to your agenda…
But bringing in something completely unrelated to try and slander somebody (argumentative fallacy btw, your posts are filled with an absurd amount of em), ya.
You never grew up.
I have a feeling a large portion of your time is taken up by scathing arguments on social media that often devolve into name calling and slander.
I’ve also got a strong inclination that you tied your identity to RSV so deeply, letting it go is like letting a part of yourself die.
Perhaps keeping it ranged was a better move. But its not ranged. Its never going to be.
The spec you grew so attatched to was essentially a skin / theme of two other specs. This is supported by simply looking at the spellbook from that era. Its supported by looking up old guides, old videos where high level players discuss the class, its supported by old dev posts talking about wanting to rework the class because the specs were simply to interchangeable.
You have nothing to support your agenda aside from a relentless pursuit to dismiss everybody who has a dissenting view.
I cannot think of a better representation of that…than bringing in some video from somebody who doesnt agree with you that has ZERO relation to the subject.
Being a relentless keyboard warrior wont bring back RSV, and it wont change the reality that the survival you loved was objectively, almost identical to MM and especially BM.
Btw, you can be a proponent for something WITHOUT being so vitirolic and childish.
