LOL I BEEN SAYING THIS BUT THE DENIAL IS STRONG AF
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I like mSV. I only ask now because I want more ‘bow’ specs in the game.
You clearly misunderstood the point as you normally do.
I’m talking about how ranged SV usually saw a decent amount of play. You responded with a list of (badly) cherrypicked patches you remember SV being the best in and assume those were the only time ranged SV saw any play. It doesn’t occur to you that ranged SV also saw healthy population when it wasn’t the best spec because that’s not a possibility for melee SV.
As for my own choice: I play what I want until I can’t. If MM is better than BM but I like BM more, I play BM unless it’s so bad it’s actively making my group noticeably worse. Examples of this would be HFC where MM was the only option or Ny’alotha where BM was the only option. In WotLK classic I’m playing SV the entire expansion even as MM scales ahead. Don’t assume you’re special because you care about playstyle over graphics. Hell, if I cared about performance more than playstyle I would have spent the last season playing SV in M+ but I didn’t. I even brought MM to Lords of Dread.
This is grasping at straws and I think even you recognise that.
SV is not more mobile than MM in WotLK. That’s only the case in later expansions.
I’m sure MM will pull ahead of SV in population when we get to Ulduar and beyond. But I’m also sure SV will keep a decent population level i.e. not plummet to among last place like melee SV does. That’s what happened in the original WotLK after all.
Evidently that’s not true because the Hunter specs themselves were more similar to one another in WotLK than they were in MoP and especially WoD. Many other pairs of specs were very similar at the time as well. Go look at how Combat and Subtlety played in WotLK for a good laugh (in fact those two specs would still have a ton of overlap going forward). In MoP itself I could admit BM and SV being the most similar, which is still ironic because Blizzard specifically compared MM and SV, saying BM was the distinct one. So at least you’re more informed than the Blizzard developers but that’s actually a low bar to clear in WoD/Legion times. There are still specs with a ton of similarities with one another, though. Arms and Fury naturally overlap a lot in MoP. I say “naturally” because as it turns out having each spec as a totally-separate micro-class wasn’t the goal back then, and for good reason.
The playstyle similarities came from the basic elements that came with the class. Hunters came with Steady Shot to generate focus (replaced by Cobra Shot in BM and SV), Arcane Shot to dump focus, Multi-Shot to AoE, Rapid Fire as a cooldown, and a ton of shared utility spells. The differences came from what each spec added. BM got Bestial Wrath and Kill Command along with Beast Cleave and the Frenzy system. Survival got Explosive Shot and Black Arrow along with Lock and Load and Serpent Spread. They helped build unique identities and playstyles. Yes, it could have diverged even more from there; but it had already diverged by quite a bit and, to be frank, it wasn’t a pressing issue warranting a total or even particularly large rework of any of the specs. Especially not that rework.
But never mind that because you once again wrote several paragraphs hyperfixating on this one point while missing the more important issue. Even if we say that they weren’t distinct enough: that’s not merit for making SV melee. It’s not even a particularly good solution, let alone the only one. Hell, it’s a particularly bad solution not just because of all the problems associated with being melee, or the fact that lacking a ranged weapon makes little sense in the Hunter class, but they ended up just giving SV a ton of “beast mastery” aspects anyway and just rebranding it as “companionship”. Sure, it plays differnetly, but the identity matters a lot.
I played BM and SV back in the day. Despite the playstyle similarities I never felt that one spec was infringing on what belonged to the other. When playing BM in modern WoW, however, I feel as though SV is infringing on the spec’s identity a lot, especially when I see SV hunters (often people who play melee classes and dabble with Hunters like that Terranox guy) demanding Exotic Pets for SV.
If they wanted SV to be more distinct there were plenty of ways to do it that would have been both a) easier and b) more effective. For example at the end of WoD we had a trinket that made Black Arrow have a CDR allowing multidotting with Black Arrow and funnelling extra Lock and Load procs into single target. That’s one simple change that would have immediately had a huge and distinguishing effect on the playstyle. And it would have been something actually useful and thematic for the class. So this whole “SV doesn’t need to be ranged” line is nonsense. The issues it faces now due to being melee are 100 times worse than any complaints about “not being different enough to BM”. The spec and the class as a whole would benefit immensely by being ranged again.
Sounds like you dropped this line just because it sounded good in your head. But as we can see you ignored the most important part which is that even if SV was too similar to BM making SV melee was about the worst possible way to address it, short of making it a tank or healer. SV is far worse off now as a result than it ever would have been had they kept it as a ranged spec.
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There we go with the tone policing again. Calm down there scooter, you never get the point anyone makes.
Literally any argument you ever make before the constant crying
false
so… you?
Its getting closer to 2023, for your new years resolution, you should try to grow some hair on your chest and stop the constant mental gymnastics, bad data cope, crying about a spec you dont even play doesnt use a weapon you like, and thinking your smarter than anyone who actually plays a current spec apposed to that very brief window it was semi popular in a bad expansion back in 2015.
Its the cringiest stuff on the entirety of the WoW forums. I post on nearly every class and this is the largest larping, whining, and delusional nonsense I come across from any player. Im willing to bet you probably made a twitter account to post under as your hunter cause the ego from someone irrelevant is that Sevier you think your really asmongold or something.
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update you really did lmfaooooooo. Call me a prophet, cause I seen that coming.
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Whats all this slobbering over MOP/WOD surv hunter? It was ok, but it wasn’t some all encompassing god like design. WoD surv had a ranged auto snare that was stupidly op. The dmg and control profile weren’t very unique.
I find it very telling from a design stand point, that the only time surv saw play in the, almost 20 year history of, AWC is post legion Msv.
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How are you going to post this with a straight face when currently 80% of Hunters on WotLK classic are playing Survival? It takes like 30 secs to check that.
EDIT: Now I see you’re cherrypicking arena, which is still fallacious because in WoD SV was one of the most played PvP specs. Never mind the fact it’s a PvE game first and foremost. What do you find so “telling” about the representation of a spec in an arena tournament?
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Idk this was also because MM has been pretty terribly designed since WoD hit in PvP minus like very end of legion where it was somewhat acceptable
SV still was not that popular in WoD PvP, hunters pmuch always have low rep
Although late MoP SV was actually good on a tournament level depending on your comp and what you were fighting
They won’t be playing wrath surv pvp for long. Mm will easily replace it next phase.
FACT: wod surv never saw any play in the Awc. FACT: Awc is the premier pvp championship of wow. FACT: Msv is the first time the sv spec saw play in AWC.
Facts don’t care about your feelings little buddy. If the facts upset your narrative( and apparently your feelings), maybe its time you rethink that narrative.
Btw, i play wrath surv on wolk exclusively. I will likely not be playing DF either.
I sort of remember MM beast cleave in mop. Vanguards and Yoske used to try to line up Ele blast/LL and aimed shots for non cd burst.
wargraphs had SV as pretty popular in WoD PvP.
I asked you what do you find so telling about this? How do you think it upsets my narrative?
Because I think if a spec is apparently so good yet it’s still very unpopular it actually rather helps my narrative.
P.S. A little weird to still be shilling for melee SV when apparently it’s not even good enough for you to play it ¯\(ツ)/¯
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2.5% rep is popular? What LOL
That rep is actually pretty much no different from where hunters are now as well with SV in PvP with an extra class existing
That’s the latest data aka 2019 (BFA). Look at the graph over time. in the 2015-2016 WoD period it was much higher, averaging around 6% which IIRC was the 2nd highest in the game at that time.
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Yeah I see what you’re talking about with it there now
That peak you’re showing looks like when SV had 12 second trap CD near the very start of the xpac which was when they were incredibly strong and then it dropped back down right after anyways
6% rep for PvP when that’s your only spec for the class is really not that popular though - that’s where we were end of the xpac with 3 playable specs as well.
You really only get massive surges on hunter rep when something is really overpowered (MoP release, WoTLK release)
IIRC the reason SV was good in WoD was because it had unstoppable constant rot damage + very good CC options (30% slow on auto attack) so similar to BM’s strength now. It’s noteworthy how it survived the Improved Serpent Sting nerf which completely destroyed it in PvE. On that note the fact set bonuses and the legendary ring didn’t work in rated PVP probably helped to save it because the relative lack of power gain from those v.s. what other specs got really screwed SV in PvE on top of the ISS nerf.
Before WoD there was no dispel protection on Black Arrow so you could ruin SV’s damage profile just by dispelling. Black Arrow having that dispel CD reset + Serpent Sting being automatically applied by Arcane Shot made the spec good.
BM’s rep wasn’t too bad at the same time either.
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As is it is with every spec every class. People pick it based on performance. That low percentage show actual fans of the spec who don’t care if its meta or not.
The spec was good but again it’s peak was still when you had 12 second traps
Otherwise it was no different than hunter representation at any other time
BM rep was also good at the very start of WoD, BM+crows damage was absurd and BM could spam tranq shot infinitely
After some nerfs it was just a niche spec that very rarely saw play compared to SV during the xpac
Yes but before WoD LNL procs had an ICD and you could get them from trapping anyways, MoP SV was just as strong as MM was as long as you were playing with a resto shaman
Nah there are classes who even when average still have very high rep and popularity
Hunters stay pretty fixed representation-wise outside of some extreme outliers - like they have to be more than top tier they have to be just completely mindless for them to get a good rep spike and that’s usually also requiring it to be the start of an xpac
They can still be anywhere from S to B tier otherwise and have the same representation in PvP
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Really? That was a pathetic comment.
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SV Hunter players hating the Hunter class is a common trope. In those cases there’s a reason they like melee SV so much in the first place…
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It actually doesnt do any of that. I dont know what youre on about. Constantly touting this whole “feeling” that for some reason only bm can incorporate the pet into how the class plays is nonsense. Its the og pet class. Surv is still distinctly different and you refusing to accept that isnt proof of anything.
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