Do it has not. Heroic and even challenge dungeons are no where close to the same things.
Challenge mode is a baby M+. It’s where the idea even came from.
You mean, “This community is destroying our Raider IO”!
Level 466 is like, extremely low with the cape+neck bloat.
Pretty sure its because of raider io bud
The thing is, the game has plenty of easy fun available.
Mythic plus is a team design that benefits greatly from consistency.
You don’t just walk up to a professional team and say ‘hey guys, put me in at QB’ unless you’ve got some way to prove you’ve done it and are gonna fit what the team needs.
If you’re in it for the fun new player experience, start really low and work your way up. Eventually you may find people who think like you and boom, you’ve got a group.
One of my teammates right now is someone we met through pugs. Now he runs with us consistently and we have a blast.
Actually, 3 of my four friends were made similarly and we play almost every night.
Point is mythic plus is pretty miserable for a pug unless you’re gonna main a rogue, healadin or resto Druid.
But it’s also not the content to push if you’re in this game for casual fun.
Raiderio isn’t a problem at all.
People need to stop taking it so personally when a group is looking for a particular set of skills for their group that they don’t have.
Start low. Meet people. Enjoy.
3 Likes
Still different. Before, raiding ICC was the ONLY way to get that gearscore. You knew de facto that that player did the content.
It isn’t the case anymore.
you can still do this.
you can run heroic or base mythic dungeons with new players all you want.
m+ keys are different content than the 5 mans of before.
Challenge mode is M0, not M+. The idea for M+ came from D3 Greater Rifts.
As do I. The argument is about using an external application and scoring system (to the chuckle head who will argue, the number provided is sort of from armory but still is an arbitrary number pulled out of the air, much like GearScore of old) define a person’s ability.
It is very disingenuous for people to say that they have not had issues with players who have adequate RaderIO scores. But they circle the wagons for some reason because they feel if they do not defend a socially abusive system that they will not be allowed to participate any more.
The only thing different is no affixes and no key…it was still timed though.
How do you equal m0 to challenge. The whole frigging point of challenge was that it was timed…
edit : and that you needed a % of trash kills… another thing that’s in m+.
no. raiderio doesn’t define ability.
it defines experience.
if I’m looking for someone for a +18 WCM, I list it, and I get 30 people signed up within seconds.
I can choose just by ilvl.
I can choose by base io score.
I can choose the guy with the lower score but more relevant expereince in that particular dungeon.
I can choose the guy wtih more runs overall
I can choose the complete noob who has no listed score (and thus, no demonstrable experience)
the key is, I can choose. it’s up to me, as the group maker, to decide who I’m bringing.
ALL of those people might be absolutely crap at the game. I don’t know that. they’re strangers. What I’m doing in making the best choice I can with the information I have is simply mitigating the risk of failure.
I run keys to have fun, not to bumble along with some guy who doesn’t know what he’s doing 
if that guy wants in, he can pay me. otherwise, I’m going to chose the person most likely to help my group succeed.
5 Likes
Really, that is the ONLY difference? Also nothing about the scaling difficulty taking it past M0 level?
This argument needs to burn already. If you can’t handle it just don’t do it.
The timer was the difficulty. Kinda like 2 chest/3 chest
Because it was one single difficulty above heroic and did not scale the same seasonally (also no affixes or keys). There was no reason to vet people for it.
I run heroic/mythic dungeons all the time to help people out or just because I’m bored, that doesn’t mean I’m taking that same group in to a timed run where the amount of loot is based on performance. I’ve had to have the talks with friends alike that they are not entitled to anyone else’s keys and cant demand a spot in content they are not putting in the effort to be ready for. I’ll always help someone get there but they have to be a member of the team not just a carry getting pity loot.
You know what was nice? Doing regular old heroic dungeons for a weekly currency to buy gear with. Just spamming heroic dungeons with the boys. Chatting it up and having some beers.
Two sides of the same coin. I said a long time ago that if Blizzard want to make this kind of crap obsolete they would. You did it to yourselves.