By and large the blue post today was awesome. I did want to touch on something however that seems to still be a misunderstood aspect of vanilla: the D2 set. Incorporated into the game after non-raiders were about melting down for lack of content geared toward them. A desire for long-term slog, difficult content, yet could be tackled over time without being 1 of 40 players in a raid.
Continuing the discussion from Classic Content Plan:
Do you honestly believe that D2 gear, with it’s expense, time commitment, rep requirement, and difficulty, had even remotely “biggest power gains” so much that it has to be held at a loooooooooooong arms length away from the non-raiders which it is intended for? The questline cost in gold alone is 220G and one needs to actually do a random number of dungeon content to get the D1 items prior to the upgrades. What putting it so late in the timeline does, is allow raiders to trivialize both the Baron 45 run as well as the Valthalak battle. The gear is not simply dropped as though a piece from a raid, it has inherent self gating of it’s own.
I think it is great that thought is being put into progression, but you really need to step back and realize that there is progression needed for non-raiders as well. The slight bump in stats for SUCH a commitment put into the questline does not warrant holding off on it’s earlier implementation, simply to appease a raider-centric point of view.
Please allow pursuit of the D2 set at release or second phase at the latest. Allow completion of the set to actually mean something, untarnished by the trivialization by raid gear.
Too often are aspects of the game judged by how they will affect a single digit percent of players. For once can we focus on non-raiders instead?
For reference:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dungeon_Set_2
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You understand that everyone would be swimming in D2 gear waiting for BWL right? As much as I like it, it is a late game toss out to people who don’t raid.
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Cyberten, did you actually complete a D2 set during vanilla? To suggest that people would be swimming in it is demonstrating some monumental ignorance of what actually went into getting the D1 set alone, much less the expensive, rep-involved, difficulty of upgrading it to D2.
It was not tossed into the game once raiders were past a certain point. It was tossed into the game because non-raiders were frankly getting fed up.
D2 gates itself, and anyone suggesting that people would be rushing through it is absurd.
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I never got the full set but I am aware of how good it was for some classes and how hard it was to get. The gold argument doesn’t phase me. Go farm rfk for 4 hours. You’ll get your 220 gold.
I just refreshed myself on it so I don’t look dumb. Step required silithus chain which alone causes problems.
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Are Non-Raiders also non-pvpers? What would a non raider end up doing in Classic wow that would keep them enjoying the game long term? I ask because i know what i did at the time and that was go back and play DAoC for a few months of NF, until some friends got a build towards the end of the expansion.
I personally don’t think the D2 set was ever intended as a catch up mechanic in any way. I think it was built as a way to provide challenging and rewarding content to people who didn’t raid for some reason or another.
I’m not sure how this adds to the conversation tbh.
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I did my dungeons set 2 on my Alt priest. Funky thing about the Dungeon set 2, we called it T-0.5 back then.
Needless to say, some of the parts were really good while other parts of the set were kinda junk for certain builds, but like all things vanilla not all parts of a set were designed with your own personal build in minds.
Instead the sets were designed for a class, and that’s actually an intelligent way to doing things because it keeps the game more enjoyable PVP side for new players VS geared players.
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And the:
- 1x Delicate Arcanite Converter
- 4x Greater Eternal Essence
- 10x Stonescale Oil
- 25x Volcanic_Ash
- Extra Goblin_Rocket_Fuel as needed
- 3x Dark_Iron_Bar
- 3x Mooncloth
- 20x Enchanted_Leather
- 4x Cured_Rugged_Hide
- 8x Large Brilliant Shard
- 4x Dark_Rune
- Hallowed Brazier
- Argent_Dawn) - Honored
- 1x Flask of Supreme Power
- Friendly with [Cenarion Hold
- 1x Twilight Trappings Set:
- 1x Twilight Cultist Robe
- 1xTwilight Cultist Mantle
- 1x Twilight Cultist Cowl
- 1x Twilight Cultist Medallion of Station:
- 1x Large Brilliant Shard
- 3x Faded Abyssal Cres
- You can either buy them at the [Auction House] or summon 3 Abyssal Templars at a Wind stone in Silithus, which will require 3 Twilight Trappings sets.
- 1x Signet of Beckoning: Fire or luck
- 1x Dark Rune
- 5x Firebloom
Do you honestly think raiders are going to go through all of that trouble for a mediocre set compared to what they will be getting as a simple drop in a raid?
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Youre talking about people people who created a pre-raid BIS list. As in Pre MC-Ony BIS list. Do i think that people who got that list would get tier .5 if it fit there list? Yes … yes i do
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True end-game is wall-jumping, too bad it won’t be in classic tho…
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To re-affirm, the Silithus stuff would have to be changed due to the fact that it wouldn’t be out yet. But that aside, the D2 set is on par with T2 for some classes. I like to use the rogue as the ultimate example.
D2
classicdb.ch/?item=22005
T2
classicdb.ch/?item=16908
D2 has the 4 set that stomps the bloodfang 8 set. Many classes would get D2 and just brush off T2 even before it’s out until they get the right setup they need. The D2 set for Paladin, Shaman, Druid, Priest… basically any hybrids… makes the ZG set laughable as well. The D2 sets are really nice. Far to nice for launch. You are mentioning gold/rep. The only thing i see on there that is really a pain in the butt is the Flask. Everything else is just basic profession stuff besides the Arcanite which is kinda annoying.
Having it on launch would also jack of prices of those items which could be good or bad depending on who you are. It’s also not vanilla.
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Might as well just unsub before i even sub and play Kenshi instead.
So, the troll cares about something after all…
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That’s not why though. The reason it was moved up on the content release schedule is because it is more true to vanilla. It provides a more authentic vanilla experience. And at the end of the day that’s all that matters.
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dungeon set 2 is geared more towards people who do 5 mans and pvp. the only classes that would wear it for raids would be a few dps classes, that is if they wanted the set bonus.
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i assure you that it would be farmed to the floor by all classes of people raiding before BWL dropped. The sets are aimed at people who like 5 mans and pvp players, but if they where released ealier than BWL they would be aimed at anyone who wants to actually be competitive. it’s like diremaul on roids.
i disagree i think even tier 1 is better in a lot of cases. The only class i would be really excited about getting dungeon set 2 for raids would be rogues.
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The warrior set is incredible for dpsing as a warrior. It allows you to basically avoid farming the random boss drops in MC and even BWL and just focus on your D2 set. Check it out.
The chest and boots are very nice and you would have a hard time finding better than those. The rest of the set isnt that great though and you would be better off using 5 man blues and crafted items over them. Also even the black dragonscale set is good enough you could use that over the chest and boots and wouldnt be too far behind.
Dungeon set 2 chest, boots, gloves:
58 stam , 59 strength, 2 hit, 1 crit,13 agility so
- 580 health
- 118 AP
- 2 hit
- 1 crit
- 13 agility
Black dragonscale: boots - 10 stamina , 28 attack power 24 fire resist
chest 8 stamina, 50 attack power, 12 fire resist and 1 hit from bonus
truestrike shoulders 2 hit 28 attack power
- 180 health
- 106 attack power
- 3 hit
- 36 fire resist
much less health than dungeon set 2 but more hit. Comparable attack power. using the gloves of dungeon set two means you cant use devilsaur gloves which puts dungeon set 2 behind dps wise.
1 hit vs. 400 hp, 1.65crit(13 agi) and 12 ap…
the resist from the set is all that is has going for it. not to mention the armor differences. the D2 set is incredible and yes the devilsaur legs/hands would most likely be worn. The D2 boots, chest, and head are amazing. gloves arn’t bad either. the leather quest belt from UBRS iirc is better than the D2 belt and there is better bracers as well. Truestrike is also very nice obviously. having a nice HP pool is good for off tanking which happens quite a bit you shouldn’t forget. With 2 precision rings, quest belt, devilsaur, battleborn, and then you can just fill in the rest with D2 you should be at 9% hit. you don’t need the truestrike even. the moment a warrior can replace truestrike they jump with joy because of how awful it is being a pringles chip in terms of brittle.