Raid vs Mythic+ loot tables

[Fiasko-sargeras]

That’s true, but now the heroic raiders are getting hit too. Unfortunate.

[Rolldaddy-proudmoore]

It still doesn’t fix the issue that people that purely do M+ will be, in essence, required to raid to get gear to compete early on. It’s the same problem it is now, where did M+ to do better in raid, but reversed. The boosting communities are going to have a field day selling heroic raids.

[Yellöwböze-trollbane (Yellöwböze)]

@Kaivax

where getting an item from relevant content should feel rewarding on its own more often,

Isn’t the OP’s post the exact opposite of your point here? If there’s only 1 mail helm in the raid, and it offers your lowest secondary stats, you could be in a situation where your M+ helmet that is 3 iLvls lower could still be superior just due to strength of secondaries.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Drakov-zuljin

And what are the odds of that?

How many rings total on the Mythic+ loot tables ?

@Drakov-zuljin

What are the odds of that, compared to the odds when you only have 1 choice?

From my experience, the odds of getting rings from the loot box are nil, and when you do get one, it’s bad stats.

Plus you need to realise : Bonus rolls are completely going away. No more targetting your few Mythic raid bosses for particular drops.

[Srath-earthen-ring (Srath)]

DO NOT tie gear to rating unless you want to kill pvp for ANOTHER expansion. Think about it…you can’t or won’t even try to balance pvp so it will just be another joke.

PVE mobs do not gear up, PVP characters do. Non-FOTM get screwed, people behind the curve get screwed.

All this does is FORCE people to do content they don’t want to do to try to stay competitive.

Allow people to have equal item level. Allow gear to be upgraded in pvp so it is an even playing field.

STOP doing “raid or die” or “pve to pvp”
literally copy/paste the WoD pvp system without any changes to it.

[Ajahs-wyrmrest-accord]

@Telamachus-moon-guard

So how does that replace bonus rolls? This SL system rewards you with 1 piece of gear at the end of the week, whereas BfA had your weekly mythic chest, weekly conquest reward, and the potential for multiple bonus rolls in raids/dungeons to reward you extra gear. So at the very least we’re down 1 piece of gear each week

You’re not missing anything. They want you to run 3x the content in order to obtain rewards, at a much higher difficulty.

[Shaldorning-bleeding-hollow]

@Yellöwböze-trollbane

Isn’t the OP’s post the exact opposite of your point here? If there’s only 1 mail helm in the raid, and it offers your lowest secondary stats, you could be in a situation where your M+ helmet that is 3 iLvls lower could still be superior just due to strength of secondaries.

I think it’s possible the 3 ilvls lower on beta right now is a mistake. He later said the aim was for max M+ and heroic raid gear to be ilvl 213.

[Finninbas-moon-guard]

Would a world boss count as a raid boss on normal mode? Given we can bonus roll world bosses :P.

[Berserkèr-tichondrius]

My favorite way to get loot is paying for it with WoW tokens will this be available in Shadowlands?

[Celebrate-whitemane]

delete gear from mythic raid , is way 2 unfair ,ppl do it only there for chaleng yep , they can do chalenge in heroac raid gear

[Ðirestorm-goldrinn]

@Fiasko-sargeras

The intention here is good, but you are making mythic+ worthless 2-3 months into each tier by making it lower than heroic quality gear. The only reason to ever run a mythic+ keystone at this point would be for your weekly reward.

Yes, that is the point. It is designed to discourage obsessive farming and to encourage a more spread out and paced approach. Raids and pvp have weekly lock outs, and the great vault will be the M+ weekly lockout.

@Raiimir-stormrage

The problem with this approach is that now Mythic Keystones at your targetted level are only reward once per week, whereas Heroic raiding has 10 possible chances of reward per week, usually resulting in about 2-3 items. Not to mention a +7 key is much more trivial than Heroic raiding, which imbalances the risk/reward ratio.

Wouldn’t a better approach be introducing a sort of loot lockout to Mythic keystones (different schemes are possible here), and having the appropriate difficulty end of dungeon drop that 213 loot (instead of 210 ? Why even 210, why not 213 ?).

Since dungeons can’t get harder without throwing balance out of the window the idea seems to be: M+ is easier but provide less loot while raids are harder but provide more loot, while both being the same item level.

@Páws-wyrmrest-accord

Last time I checked not even Mythic 15s dropped 210 ilvl. Was this changed recently?

The 210 are just a form of transitional gear. The main reward from a 15 is the Ilv 226 gear at the end of the week.

[Pitagriffin-thrall (Pitagriffin)]

@Vhx-black-dragonflight

Or because players enjoy the content even without the reward?

So sad that this extremely poignant observation is being flagged. What is wrong with you people??

[Erryndal-area-52]

@Kaivax

For example, we’re currently targeting item level 213 for Challenger-level PvP, Heroic raiding, or Mythic Keystone dungeons at the +7 difficulty.

This is deeply disingenuous. From completing any number of +7 difficulty keystones, you can receive a single item, per week, at item level 213. It’s not a reward from those +7 difficulty keystones, it’s a reward from the Great Vault for doing those keystones. The +7 keystones themselves only reward item level 200 gear.

Meanwhile, heroic raiding rewards item level 213 gear from the raid itself, and item level 213 gear from the Great Vault.

Please advocate for this system on its own merits. Don’t be disingenuous about it.

[Xalilith-thrall]

I am really on board with this system. But could we PLEASE get Masterloot back for Guild Groups. When I as a fire mage loot Psyche Shreader the first time we kill Skitra it SUCKS. I wanted to give it to a class that could use it better but I couldn’t because of how Personal Loot is setup.

@Kaivax

As has been observed in the Beta, loot quantities overall are reduced in Shadowlands. Following the proclamation “let loot be loot”, we’re entering into a world without Warforging and Titanforging, where getting an item from relevant content should feel rewarding on its own more often, without needing to hope for random upgrades.

[Maldoren-alleria]

I frankly can’t imagine why they did away with it. It did not negatively affect anyone. The gear you got in one was effective in the other, just not fully optimized, and per Blizzard’s philosophy, those who do the most content should be the strongest. And they would be, because they’d have good gear for both ends of the game!

WoD gearing was as close to perfect as you can probably get in a game like this. There was no benefit to the playerbase to remove it.

[Berserkèr-tichondrius]

With 8.3 gear progression of buying corrupted gear off of the AH with wow tokens helped me in my busy day to day life. I was wondering if this will still be one of the best ways of obtaining gear in Shadowlands.

[Mcfluffins-proudmoore]

@Rolldaddy-proudmoore

It still doesn’t fix the issue that people that purely do M+ will be, in essence, required to raid to get gear to compete early on.

This has literally been true since mythic+ has been a thing. There has always been bis gear in raids that people go after. The three item level difference isn’t going to change that.

[Drakov-zuljin]

@Raiimir-stormrage

How many rings total on the Mythic+ loot tables ?

I dont have an exact number. But lets say 20% are rings. The odds of rolling 1-20 out of 100 once is 20%. The odds of rolling two >20s is very low. The odds of rolling three >20s is extremely low. I play 40k, and rerolling dice, which is effectively what this system is, costs an absolute premium because it’s so powerful. The odds of getting 3 rings is absolutely miniscule. At the very least, in this 20% model, getting 1 choice leaves you at a 20% chance to get screwed, getting 3 choices gives you a 0.8% chance to get all rings, if my math is right.

So, yeah, i think this change improves itemization for every class of player, in every form of content.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

Feels awesome to come back to a blue post

I don’t really have any issues with the current trend, I was just trying to point out that while heroic raids are 3 item levels higher than end of dungeon mythic+ that doesn’t by any stretch of the imagination make mythic+ useless when there is a much greater amount of secondary stat combination loot to pursue which could be much better for your spec than the relatively limited options in the raid.

[Shaldorning-bleeding-hollow]

@Erryndal-area-52

This is deeply disingenuous. From completing any number of +7 difficulty keystones, you can receive a single item, per week, at item level 213. It’s not a reward from those +7 difficulty keystones, it’s a reward from the Great Vault for doing those keystones. The +7 keystones themselves only reward item level 200 gear.

Unless they plan on changing it to that. They need to address it one way or the other but they still haven’t talked about the 3 ilvl difference between heroic and M+ gear. So it’s too early to assume anything until they answer that. Which I imagine they will very shortly.