Did you forget about the legendary Cata daggers?
Nope. I remember them well. They werenāt required to push rating.
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If you get a group of players that spend 6 hours on a M+ then good for them theyāve earned it. The amount of mental āskillā that would require would be bounds above the āskillā of downing a heroic boss.
To preface: Iām not against this change. At absolute worst, I donāt care as it wonāt negatively affect my game play or mentality in the long run. I would in fact like it, as itās one less thing I have to concern myself with. One less currency, one less thing to forget, one less source of frustration.
On the surface, I donāt understand how you can imagine one item out of nine is equal to a bonus roll. As is, youāre guaranteed one item from the chest. Your coins give you a chance of receiving one additional item in addition anything you get from that weekās activities.
Me personally, I use coins in two ways. One is to acquire much-needed upgrades, the other is to acquire an xmog skin I would otherwise not use. Out of 16 slots, you will at best receive 9 items to choose from for those slots. How many of these will be items we actually need? The right stats, non-duplicates (week-to-week), and right slot? How does this equate to targeting a specific boss with a specific loot table that is drastically smaller than what the chest offers?
I wouldnāt mind seeing some universal item, possibly from The Maw or Tower, that would allow for a roulette-style spin for a second item from the chest. Maybe a crafted item, maybe a chance drop, maybe a charge system filled via an activity. This would give the gold from a missed roll AND xmog, or an item you can use while at the same time encouraging more activity.
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hereās the problem you guys probably not thinking about. Having no more bonus roll and relying on the vault means we have to hope we get a good rng on the specific boss with the specific item that we need. As how Castle Natria stands right now there are 12 bosses (I think). So we not only have to be lucky to get a loot table on the specific boss that we need but also lucky on the specific loot as well. Yes bonus roll was an rng system. But itās a controlled rng since we use it on a specific boss that a gear we need. I would be happier if you just reduce the bonus roll to 1 item but have it so itās a 100% loot drop. Itās still an rng on what gear we get but atleast we know when we press that button itās gear weāre getting and not some stupid currency.
Most CE raiders are averaging less than 1 drop a week the first few months
If a guild is working on mythic (and not just killing the first 1-3 bosses which are usually freebees), I would expect them to be full clearing Heroic up to at least the last boss. In Nathria that would be 9 heroic bosses and letās say 5 mythic bosses. Youāre telling me that out of 14 boss kills players average less than 1 piece of loot? I would disagree.
I think 1-2 (I was figuring ~1.5) is more accurate for a middle of the pack Mythic raiding guild.
while M+ players are guaranteed an item every week.
Raiders also get an item out of the Great Vaultā¦
Thatās why so many raiders feel forced to also do M+, which is the fastest way to gear in the game ā and still will be in Shadowlands.
To fill in gear gaps at the start of the expansion - yes - maybe. Since the drops are worse than Heroic raids and you donāt even need it to get gear from the Vault if you are a raider (unless you want more options) thereās little reason to step foot in M+ after the start.
And the reason I said āmaybeā above is because doing +15s will not be easy like everyone is used to now with OP corrupted max level gear. Hereās a screenshot from one of Sloot and Psybearslotās recent M+15 runs:
He spent 2 hours in there with sloot and 154+ deaths. Other streamers are experiencing the same on +15 keys now that Blizzard removed the artificial gear scaling. And thatās assuming you can even GET a +15 key on liveā¦ youād have to somehow push one up to that level.
What I want Blizzard to do is add in global PvE lockouts so that no matter what type of PvE content you do, you are limited to X chances at high-end loot a week. That way M+ players can get their gear from just M+ (unless they want to raid for better secondary stats on a piece) and raiders can just get their gear from raiding (and not feel obliged to do M+ unless they want to hunt for secondary stats).
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Right, but no one is forced. If you want to be the best, you will take every opportunity.
Otherwise you do your best and improve without your means.
This is not classic wow and the large majority of retail players donāt want retail to turn into classic. I understand you dont want people to be completely decked out in gear the first 2-3 weeks of the xpac but nerfing the m+ loot for a 15 to lower quality than heroic is ridiculous. You nerfed the drops to 1 + an extra for timing, which is completely fine, but a 15 is more difficult than the majority of heroic bosses. A 10 for most of BFA dropped the same ilvl as heroic which seems on par for difficulty. If you really want to keep relevant content feel rewarding, why cap end of dungeon drops at a 15? The ilvl should go up for higher keys beyond a 15 just like mythic raiding drops higher ilvl than heroic raiding. They should do a similar system for PVP but I have no idea how to implement it cause I dont PVP. The lack of gear options and drops is going to make the game feel unrewarding, especially for people like myself, that have terrible luck on drops. The chest is still completely random and no supposed to have duplicates, remember 8.3 chests dropping cloaks for multiple weeks lol, but the odds of getting an upgrade every week will be extremely low after 2-3 weeks. If you really want the strongest loot in WoW to come from the three organized paths, then you need to make all three on par with each other. Not punish M+ and PVP by capping them at one item per week while a mythic raider can get multiple pieces a week.
Sodapoppin is a master of the art of pillar humping. I remember those MoP duel streams fondly.
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Iām not arguing that everyone wants to be the best though. What Iām arguing is that players donāt like being at a severe disadvantage just because they donāt PvE. Which again was the case for multiple expansions. That being players could only PvP and still compete just fine.
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Iām talking about Mythic gear, which is what matters. You do Heroic for 2 or 3 weeks and then stop because itās just vendor trash after that. Same as the end-of-dungeon stuff from M+, which is also vendor trash after a couple weeks.
I bet since people will be incentivized to run more than 1 M+ a week theyāll actually gear quicker.
Nah, after a couple of months into the tier you run out of upgrades and you basically waiting for a couple of key items from the weekly or maybe 1 or 2 from the raid.
Is not unusual to get nothing from the raid for weeks.
That is nothing new, same thing happen in legion and bfa. They are going to be easy by the third week(after the release of m+ and heroic raids)
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Indeed. The speed of M+ gearing is going to be ridiculous, I know a bunch of raiders planning to take that week off just to profit off the M+ gravy train that is coming.
I donāt know anything about it, so Iāll defer to your position, if you are sure that you can not be successful with only PVP gearing.
All Iāll say is it shouldnāt be surprising that content that takes place in more than a single room with 4 people is content they want to funnel people into.
People SHOULD want to do it, and no one should be surprised by Blizzard wanting you to.
I donāt understand the lower ilevel stuff in m+ considering some m+ is harder than raiding but I really enjoy that titanforging and bonus rolls are gone, ill call it a net positive well done blizz
As always I will sit back and play the game for myself and offer you my opinion if stuff is suckingā¦
Personally Iāll deal with the whole loot things. I know Iām not looking forward to running on your wheel, and it seems like you guys are just adding time to thatā¦
But realistically when it comes to class balance your guys calculators seem to be broken early into an expansion. I am hoping that the current tuning going on will make it fun for all of usā¦ Unfortunately youāve introduced systems that will make switching difficult. All specs need to be viable for the role the player has selected. Period. And you guys need to deliver on that in 9.0 and not in 9.1 or .2 or .3
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And every time they want to tell me that I SHOULD raid or M+ then Iām going to push back against the idea of that. Thereās more to PvP than just doing 2s. Thereās BGs which range from having 20 to 80 players on both sides and World PvP which the number can be infinite.
Theyāve made a plethora of game types for the type of content that I enjoy. I donāt believe, regardless of how long PvE has been in the game, that I should feel forced to do it outside of my own want to engage in that content. Primarily because I enjoy doing it and the rewards like xmog, mounts and titles are just additional rewards outside of gear progression.
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Nah, after a couple of months into the tier you run out of upgrades and you basically waiting for a couple of key items from the weekly or maybe 1 or 2 from the raid.
^ LOL thatās EXACTLY the point. Raiders will quickly get gear for all their slots (between their own drops and getting traded gear) and then start getting drops that they just DE or trade because theyāre not upgrades.
Players that just wanna do M+ and not any raiding will be limited to just 1 piece of heroic or better gear a week, taking at LEAST 16 weeks to fill all their slots and probably more like 20-24 weeks. Thatās why Mythic+ by itself is not a viable end-game progression system because unless you raid you will be WAY behind raiders in iLevel no matter how good a player you are or how high of keys you can push.
Itās 3 item levels, and the weekly chest is still on par with raiding. You guys are acting like they are making M+ drop 20 item levels lower and even the weekly chest is barely LFR level.
I realize that M+ can be a separate progression path for non-raiders, and I think it should be. I also enjoy M+, at least the same amount as raiding, possibly more. But why should M+ offer a gearing option so much faster then either PvP or Raiding?
No other gearing option is as fast as M+ currently is. And while I realize that it must be some conspiracy against M+ only runners and high level raiders because Blizz hates funā¦
After a week or so, thatās always the only reason to run M+. Except, of course, for those people who actually run them because they enjoy them even after no gear reward increases are even possible, or probable. You know, those folks who regularly run keys above 15 because itās a fun challenge.
Oh, nevermind, there can never be anything done in this game just because itās funā¦
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