That would be the case even if dungeons dropped 20 pieces of loot per dungeon since it can’t WF. If you’re looking for comparisons to trying to reach mythic raid ilvl gear in a world with no WFing this is just straight up better and it’s not close.
Being below heroic ilvl on the grindable gear we still need to hear from Blizz on that and what’s going on there.
What about casual PvPers who don’t do rated PvP? They can’t stay in “their own” content which is random BGs with unrated rewards because they will be full of m+15 players soon after expansion starts.
Rated PvPers will have competitive gear, but casual PvPers will be outmatched in their own content.
That’s why WoD system was the best, because everyone had common gear ceiling in PvP, and PvP sets were BiS for PvP.
If bonus roll had a 10% chance of an item, and there was a raid with 10 bosses that dropped you 3 items each, you’d have a 1/10 * 1/3 = 1/30 chance to get your specific piece with a bonus roll per boss kill.
If you got all 3 vault pieces for the raid, you have a 1/30 + 1/29 + 1/28 ≈ 1/10 chance of getting the same piece.
So yes, new vault > bonus roll when considering the chance at getting 1 specific piece, but the downside is that piece replaces your weekly piece you would have otherwise gotten. Plus you only get the 1 vault item instead of 1 vault item + 2 rolls, which could have been 3 total pieces.
So it really is just sacrificing quantity for quality, which I don’t mind at all.
It will be slower at the Start but better in the long run when you only have 1-2 slots to fill.
Also, from a trinket standpoint, you could not get raid trinkets from BfA’s weekly cache but this you can so that may prove invaluable.
It’s actually getting comical watching Blizz reinvent the wheel on PvP gear for the third straight expansion.
We had a system that was accessible for new players and rewarding for pvp progression. All that’s been accomplished since is pvp has been turned into a sandbox for raid geared players to stomp on players who actually acquired their gear through pvp.
It takes most Cutting Edge guilds 3-4 months (or more) to clear the raid. Most CE raiders are averaging less than 1 drop a week the first few months, while M+ players are guaranteed an item every week.
People who don’t do progression raiding have a very distorted idea of how much gear comes from raiding. In reality, it’s not much. That’s why so many raiders feel forced to also do M+, which is the fastest way to gear in the game – and still will be in Shadowlands.
What happens when your classes legionaries aren’t interesting?
Blizzard hates monks unfortunately 
Stats have never been that interesting outside of crit, haste, and some masteries though those are spec specific. They’ve always been some form of crit or haste. Armor pen? Multistrike?
So if there’s less loot drops, and everything is still locked to personal loot, are there at least some assurances in place that you’ll get at least one loot drop in a dungeon / raid or what? It’s gonna be pretty depressing if nobody in the group gets any loot.
It’s gonna be pretty depressing if nobody in the group gets any loot.
? There’s already a guarantee that a certain number of items drop off each boss/at the end of a M+… Someone always gets loot.
Edit: and to clarify unless something crazy change is happening that I didn’t see they are not going to remove the guarantee of things dropping loot, even if it is less.
Always been this way. Top teams in Wrath were thanks to Shadowmorne.
It was only ever “not that way” because of the concepts like pvp power and resilience etc.
Its also been that way in the opposite.
In season 1, the best azerite gear for my spec was from PVP, but I had no interest, so I never did it.
An advantage, sure.
But the game isn’t tuned to be difficult enough to matter, at least in PVE.
In PVP, its nothing new.
They cant, though. You cant spend 6 hours inching the boss to death in a raid fight, where as in M+ you can blow hero on every pack of mobs if you wanted. Unless they make it so loot is not given unless you time the key, then M+ will always be a face roll.
Iirc, those stats also generally took the place of other stats on gear so in full PvE gear you were a glass cannon and just destroyed people.
Timeless Isle was fun in full SoO heroic gear.
WHAT??? No one FORCED you to play PvP to get the ABSOLUTE BEST pieces??? How did you get in any groups? How did you even try to compete in any content? Are you playing the same game as me?!?!?!?!
/s
WHAT!? So targeting a specific piece will no longer be possible at all!? HORRENDOUS decision imo, the ability to earn one or two extra options in the weekly chest from the entire dungeon or raid item pool is NOT comparable AT All to what bonus rolls allow you to do. I’m usually optimistic going into an expansion, but SL feels like it’ll accomplish the impossible and actually be WORSE than WoD was.
The great vault is very likely close to the same % rate, and might be slightly higher, to get the piece of gear you want. Especially compared to BfA with no raid mission table
Certainly higher chance for dungeon trinkets.
Kaivax, you seem to have missed Argowal’s original point, though. Which was that M+ offers vastly superior loot options to raiding, because of the greater flexibility on stat options, and how the M+ loot pool gets increased in ilvl each tier, so is always relevant.
Any plans to deal with this? How about reforging for raid drops so we can get the secondary stats we want?
False. See my math above. You’d have to have 90 possible drops from a raid, and be rolling on a boss that only drops 3 pieces for you, for the chances of a bonus roll to be as good as the vault with 3 pieces. (This is assuming bonus rolls are ~10% chance to reward item, which I’ve seen many people estimate is about right).
This seems like a typo.
I believe the Shadowmorne part but again it was changed and players preferred it that way from Cataclysm up to Legion. So no it hasn’t always been this way. If anything it’s been teetering back and forth with players making it clear that they don’t want to feel forced to PvE in order to PvP.