I read everything you said. I fail to see how +7 requires Mythic raid loot to complete. Week 1 of Legion Mythic+, my guild mates timed a +9 and we got to Xavius on the +10. That’s literally the first ever week Mythic+ was ever in the game.
You’ll be doing +10s the first week of Heroic Castle.
Like every system they’ve touched in Shadowlands, “let loot be loot” looks like they are listening to their customers. They are not! This is once again double speak from Ion the great lawyer (read clueless programmer and inept leader). “let loot be loot” = “time played”, end of story.
If you were the lead of any company, say Big-O-Tires for example, and in the first 2 years you lost 1/2 of your customer base and then 2 years later you lost 1/2 of that - you’d just get fired.
This is a big red flag to me.
The speaker created confusion in the text by mixing in world and profession loot which leads you to believe that the regular drops from PVP and Mythic +(7) would be at 213 ilvl. This is not the case as these values are taken for the weekly great vault, which is a one piece per content weekly lockout resetting each tuesday.
M+ is not currently a valid end game content path because it drops a maximum ilvl on 210 ilvl piece per run at a lvl 15 key while Mythic raiding can drop a maximum of 233 ilvl pieces (last 2 bosses).
I know that PVP conquest gear starts at 190 ilvl and SHOULD be able to be upgraded like the honor gear but there is currently(on beta) no way to receive equivalent or even close to 233ilvl piece in PVP.
It would be appreciated if blizzard could assist players interested in M+ and PVP as end game contents to acquire Mythic raid equivalent gear in some way outside of the weekly great vault. I would like to propose that the gear for these content scale closer to the 233 ilvl mark as you complete harder content (Higher keys for M+ and Higher rating for PVP)
I also fail to see that, because I didn’t say that, now did I?
I fail to see what else you said. Because that’s not how keystones work. I bet you the first timed +15 will be week 1 of Mythic, if people even bother to wait for it to drop loot after the cap is removed, which it always is, Week 1 of Mythic.
I’ve learned not to argue with the clueless, so good luck being wrong, I guess.
They don’t want, and never have had, the grindable version of M+ give anything higher than heroic raid ilvl. Why it’s 3 ilvls lower currently who knows and hopefully they explain that quickly.
I don’t understand Blizzard / Activision. I pay for the game, I pay for the subscription, and instead of the company letting me play the way I want (within the allowed), this pitiful company says
"you can play as you want, but if you don’t do what we want, you won’t will have the best results "**
Raid is tiring and time consuming content, in addition to having to find a group with availability.** *
Maybe for children and people without responsibilities it will be easier.
Wrong on what ? You said you won’t be able to do a +7 until a few weeks into Mythic.
That’s obviously completely false, no matter how many ways you slice it.
So… I just read up on The Great Vault from Wowhead’s review of it and it seems that it doesn’t address people who play casually… like me.
A few things… I very much rely on getting small upgrades from World Quests and in current WoW - warforging and titanforging - sometimes I would get a really good upgrade from a random World Quest. So… whats being done to keep World Quests engaging… wheres the carrot? Because if you stagnate and get to an ilvl and then theres no other way to increase your ilvl (if you are a casual)… then there’s no reason to do World Quests?
And Bonus rolls - I feel not enough people are talking about… they were originally here for Bad Luck Protection.
Is there any Bad Luck Protection in Shadowlands? Because honestly… I have a HISTORY of having bad luck… and if there’s nothing to stop or help that… then there could be months and months of just no gear… and that sounds horrendous to me.
Or heres a thing… if you really want to have only 3 tracks. MAKE MYTHIC+ dungeons Queueable! Because THEN that solves a TON of issues for Casuals - which you guys seem to hate.
I do not like this change - AT ALL. Fine - take out Bonus Rolls for raids… keep them in at least for Dungeons!
Wow bonus rolls gone too?
Gearing up this xpac is going to suck but hey at least i’ll look pretty?
The bad luck protection is the great vault offering multiple options. Which we did not have for raids before also in BfA.
Sure we did, the mission table loot box. They removed it in BfA for some ungodly reason. Had been with us since WoD.
I don’t like auto-losing games
I’m no high-level PvPer but I imagine at most levels of PvP (except the highest, which I stated in my post) 1 item isn’t going to make you “auto-lose” the game. Furthermore, assuming the versatility set bonus is tuned well, that won’t be an issue in Shadowlands.
or not getting picked in LFG because I don’t have the right trinkets or the optimal gear.
Good joke there. I almost laughed. Who tf is checking trinkets and optimal gear in LFG? And if they are, screw them and find a different group. The only case I can see that happening would be in very high M+ and Mythic Raid LFG groups, but if you’re running those and they’re looking at your gear they’re also looking at your parses/IO which means if you don’t suck you’ll be fine.
People don’t like losing to dragonslayers whom for no reason whatsoever have better PvP gear
“no reason whatsoever”? I mean I think the fact that they killed the dragon and got its loot is certainly a reason.
from the vault pictures ive seen it looked like you’d need 10 runs for 3 items in the vault. The bit i quoted makes it look like youll get 3 items in the vault with just one m+15. now im confused
“up to” was the key there, because 1 +15 doesn’t reward all 3. I agree it was confusing when I first read it.
The chance you want a specific item from a raid boss off a bonus roll is probably 10% depending on how many items drop from a boss? Idk the chance to get a single item but it’s not incredibly high. And then there’s the loot table you have to fight against.
My guess is the chance to hit a specific piece of raid loot from the great vault vs bonus roll is about the same.
the good part of this “no bonus rolls” thing is that you wont have to reply “sorry it was bonus loot, can’t trade” ever again 
edit: yikes, replied in wrong thread.
I didn’t word that clearly. I meant that we didn’t have it in BfA.
Legion was the high point in quantity of gear but also rng. I definitely remember memes about the rng.
the very strongest loot in WoW comes from the three organized multiplayer endgame progression paths: Rated PvP, Mythic Keystone dungeons, and raiding. The design intent is for all three paths to provide parallel progression over the course of a tier, while providing players who engage in multiple paths at a comparable level a faster advancement experience.
I’m sorry, but with the current implementation, Mythic+ is not an equal “end-game progression path” to the others. 16 gear slots = 16 weeks to fill every slot with gear under the best scenario of no duplicates (and that’s just to fill the slots, not even get BiS stats). And even if play a BUNCH and do ten max level keys a week for the 3 options, the likelihood of you avoiding weeks where you get only get gear for slots you already have is unlikely. Case-in-point: https://twitter.com/yumytv/status/1306660734391267332
Raiders will not only get the benefit of the Great Vault, but also what, 1-2 pieces of gear a week from boss drops if they can clear most or all raid bosses? Maybe more if they do both Mythic and Heroic. Meanwhile M+ only players can’t even get Heroic level loot from loot drops? HOW IS THAT EVEN COMPARABLE, MUCH LESS EQUAL? Mythic+ will be so much slower than raiding at loot progression that there’s no way a player can be competitive from just M+. Raiders will be getting gear at roughly 3x the rate of players that JUST do M+ and as such raiding will be mandatory unless you want to be massively behind the gear curve. Really sad with how you guys are diminishing M+ as a stand-alone system.