The “actual fight” wasn’t going to be going anywhere in season 4. People could have still prog’d the fight without going for the achievement. But people cried they weren’t going to get their CE… so Blizzard nerfed it.
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I found the logs, and even if that eruption didn’t kill you, pull was doomed anyways. You were about 20-30 seconds off the hard enrage.
So yes, the eruption nerf will let you reach the end of the fight more consistently, but the health nerf is what will let you actually kill the boss.
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So we’re just hanging people kills now?
Why not people just get AOTC upon logging in?
You know, things weren’t that hard before, people just need to get good.
But I guess we cater to everyone now.
At this rate why have LFR/Normal/Heroic etc? Just give everyone who does LFR max rewards.
So glad I did these fights when they actually meant something.
I thought mythic progression this tier was normal. My guild didn’t really do anything different. The only tuning that my guild “appreciated” was the extra time to get with the white/black partner on Anduin, and Jailer autoattack dmg (im a tank what can i say XD). But the complaints in this thread have to do with a normal tier length leading to thousands of guilds getting CE.
Hold on a second. I’ve actually nerded out on these kind of statistics before. But the stats are Alliance only so you’d probably have to multiply additional horde guilds by x3
Uldir Mythic Start: 09/11/2018
Uldir Horde 100th: 10/14/2018
Uldir Alliance 100th: 11/05/2018
Horde and Alliance 22 Days apart
1 months go by and Alliance get ~250 guilds with cutting edge(~750 horde guilds)
Uldir End - Patch 8.1: 12/11/2018 (Uldir Length: 92 days)
36 days of mythic cross-realm
BoD Mythic Start: 01/29/2019
BoD Horde 100th: 03/13/2019
BoD Alliance 100th: 04/10/2019
Horde and Alliance 28 days apart (+6 days)
2 Months go by and Alliance get ~300 guilds with cutting edge
BoD End - Patch 8.2: 6/25/2019 (BoD Length: 148 days)
76 days of mythic cross-realm
Palace Mythic Start: 07/16/2019
Palace Horde 100th: 09/05/2019
Palace Alliance 100th: 10/16/2019
Horde and Alliance 41 days apart (+13 days)
3 Months go by and Alliance get ~300 guilds with cutting edge
Palace End - Patch 8.3: 1/14/2020 (Palace Length: 183 days)
90 days of mythic cross-realm
Ny’alotha Mythic Start: 01/28/2020
Ny’alotha Horde 100th: 03/15/2020
Ny’alotha Alliance 100th: 04/14/2020
Horde and Alliance 30 days apart (-11 days)
Due to the content draught, when SL prepatch came out Alliance had roughly 750 guilds with Cutting Edge Ny’alotha
several months of mythic cross-realm
oh and this data is from wowprogress and doesnt count the Chinese
I stopped doing this after BfA. It was obvious Blizzard getting sued by California and going very woke was stifling their patch launches. Nathria and Sanctum tiers were massive. But you can assume thousands of CE’s were still handed out each tier.
rofl what is this
endtier bosses always take ~300 pulls. well except sylvanas cause that fight was a year long. too little objectivity on these forums
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982517338433789993/992264552886566993/unknown.png
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Normal Lords of Dread and Rygelon need to be looked at again. We pretty much had these “on farm” and easily within a 3-pull maximum. Last week (Jun 28, 30) both fights were a nightmare. Same team, so you would expect the same results. I am almost convinced some nerfs slid last week.
Anduin
The adds in P2 need to pulse their aoe damage more slowly - again to account for slower tab targeting, but also for folks new to cc or where there is a cc miss (like one of our hunter’s traps unexpectedly stopping too soon, which left the add untapped with no one else having a cc available). This is normal, you need to account for slower reaction times.
I’d also take out one of the “divine stars” that’s just an annoyance tax to begin with. And I’d scale down the number of wild adds during the intermission phase. I don’t think those adds scale well with flex.
In Dreadlords,
The AoE damage ticks from the add needs to be reduced in order to account for slower tab targeting response you would expect from friends and family raiders. The add health should be reduced also so that you have less chance of the add overlapping Swarm. I’d also include that Swarm reduction to normal.
For Rygelon, we either need fewer “stars” or the stars need less health. Again, friends and family raiders are not going to have the full toolkit of a cherry-picked progression team. Slower tab targeting must be considered baseline for normal.
For Jailer, I would allow multiple people to fall into a hex, which would give elasticity for friends and family players. You still need to do the mechanic, but if you’re in a panic, and two people run into the same hex, you don’t lose 1-2 people out of the gate.
We should be able to break MC in all phases in Normal. Having to pull off the boss to save a team mate IS the punishment for failing the mechanic as the DPS hit will hurt a F&F team far more than a progression team. But for F&F raiders, losing people hits far worse, and it is frustrating to lose 1-2 people before the end of the first phase because someone got clipped going behind a pillar or two people ran to the same hex because no other hex was in the area.
The visual on the hexes needs to be improved. When you’re in the phase where you have to kill the pillars, the “zone” overlay for the “hot” hexes hides the actual hex, and that’s just dirty pool. It doesn’t matter that you “know,” when you’re focusing on positioning so you can do the other mechanics, having a visual bead on open hexes is, frankly, mandatory. All you have to do is make those hexes that are open, bright enough yellow to trigger the instinctive “avoid this space.”
At the end of the day, everyone has only so many spoons for raiding difficulty. What you want to do for NORMAL raiding is to have the bosses consume enough spoons that there are some left over. And that’s OK. Because it’s those extra spoons that encourages players to try heroic. At that point, friend and family raiders may not have enough spoons to COMPLETE heroic, but that’s not the point. The point is that by leaving enough spoons available after completing a normal raid, you are extending engagement.
I have been running a friends and family guild and raid team for 12 years. I have this down to a science. If the raid tier is built well, we can usually clear up to 6-8 (out of 10-12) heroic bosses before the next tier at out own pace with most everyone opting in to “dabbling” in heroic because they had extra spoons coming out of Normal.
The goal should never be to make Normal “as difficult” for friend and family raiders as heroic is for progression raiders. It is critical that normal raids be tuned to a wide range of skills. this is the tier for new raiders. this is the tier for your friends and family to have an enjoyable experience without having to worry about performance anxiety. This is the tier that effectively serves as the gateway, so you want there to be meaningful mechanics to get the muscle memory, but also the gentler tuning to accommodate age, physical, psychological and educational complications. You want F&F raiders energized to try heroic, even if they know they won’t get AotC. Because that’s what keeps players logging each week, which is both my goal and Blizzard’s goal for measuring the game’s success.
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Uh, you didn’t even take into account how many bosses are in the raid and duration of each tier. There was obviously less guilds in SL, but a 5 month 11 boss raid tier with two end bosses in it is far from normal. If this was a normal 11 boss tier the raid should of lasted anywhere from 9-11 months.
oh i agree.
a final tier is longer. there is always a content drought before the next expansion. it’s been normalized, figure the wow community would be used to it.
instead of an extended final tier for SL, like there always has been, we’re getting a silly season 4. they probably dont need to make a season 4.
IMO M Jailer will be nerfed again at about the 2 weeks mark because of the short time frame they decided to give us. Originally they said “end of summer”. This is not end of summer.
S4 seems like a waste of time as well. completely not interested to raid at all and reclear.
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I believe they said “later this summer”, not any specific timeframe within summer.
this poor raid has been nerfed so many times with such huge numbers every time…
it’s almost like there’s a problem with the initial difficulty 
what’s going on?!
at this point i’m thinking your precious world firsters should be on their own server with their own raid difficulty.
yikes how far behind are you guys to need to overtime raid the rest of the tier.
Mythic Rygelon? You know, the boss like 400 guilds are on?
I think the heavyhanded nerfs are in large part due to the shortened length of the season. I don’t think if we had the normal length this extreme stuff would be happening.
I mean not saying the balance isn’t wonky all it’s own, but I think the fact that CE timeframe getting several months knocked off is playing a big part.
how come you complain about people posting on alts when you post through your wow classic toon?
Where did I even say that lmao. Also, how many pulls do you have on Jailer? Must be pretty confident with 4 weeks left, that’s around 120-150 pulls.
lol i confused the post with someone else. Hitting P2 on 2 day raiding. Honestly with these nerfs think jailer dies in 5 raid days. Spoke with some friends that did earlier progression and the nerfs delete all the walling parts of jailer. No more bad overlaps. Without the nerfs would be cutting it close. Mightve threw in one day if we were close to a kill.
Theres hot takes of if youre able to stack the azerite soak buff you can just skip through p3 fast.
These jailer nerfs are huge
This tier was nice proof that Blizzard needs to ignore RTWF entirely when designing a raid. If it’s too easy the top guilds complain? Who cares.
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and that amount of time is going to be different for every single person and group out there. there is no way to tune appropriately so that 100% of players who begin the raid on their chosen difficulty finish it right before the season ends and feel adequately challenged the entire way.
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I agree in theory, but look at SoD. You get people running around claiming that SoD was badly designed because it was too easy. It was badly designed for many reasons, but people on these forums and elsewhere really need to stop parroting Limit Max.
You’ve got all of the Classic Andys who only watch World First Race and then comment on the design of the game and unfortunately Blizzard wants to control the narrative and so they react to Limit Max’s whining because it has a snowball effect on the conversation about the game.
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