Yes Herioc is easy, 15s are easy, Herioc is EASIER than 15s though forsure.
15 keys should give higher ilvl gear than Herioc. You have to do the whole dungeon, its only one piece of gear now, it takes longer to do a 15 key than a raid boss.
On average in Herioc, I usually see 4/5 pieces drop for a raid size of 15 people, thats already more loot than M+. With the new weapon tokens, and Trinkets, its better loot too.
The whole argument here is M+ loot needs nerfed, because it revitalizes raiding. Thats stupid, sorry the reality is raiding is killing itself, M+ and the LFG system defiantly have done no favors, but people are over raiding. Raiders just dont want to accept that.
On top of that, Raiders have been complaining FOREVER about PVPers getting gear. Seriously the wow raiding community are the most entitled whiney group I have ever seen in gaming. Its actually pathetic.
Your right though, posting in this thread is a waste of time for both of us. As this change will be reverted soon enough.
Has there even been confirmation that the ilvl being 3 lower than heroic is a permanent thing? I wouldn’t be terrible surprised if it’s nudged up a little bit to be parity, after mythic raids release.
Even if they remain 3 ilvl lower. You’re still talking about very easily getting full heroic-3ilvl, and then one mythic raid ilvl piece every week. Will you not gear up as fast as a mythic raider that is also doing Mythic +? Probably not.
It’s less “raid or die” and more “If you want to be the best, you need to partake in both raiding AND Mythic+”
No it’s not. More people have completed 15’s than killed Heroic N’zoth.
Let’s see you do that Heroic boss again the same week. Oh wait, you’re loot locked. Also, with M+ you can choose your bosses. Want Ra-den claws for DH? Prepare to go through at least 2 bosses and a lot of trash to get there. 30 minutes to get Ra-den loot? Try again.
First, love how you talk about SL M+ dropping one piece of gear at the end of a dungeon, but then compare that to BfA raid bosses. Didn’t you get the memo? Raid bosses are also dropping less loot.
Also once again, you completely skip the fact that in 8 weeks, the M+ will have a higher ilvl than the Heroic Raider because the Heroic raider will never get bonus gear higher than Heroic while the M+ player will get up to 3 different mythic tier level gear to choose from. I love how you continue to ignore the one obvious trump card m+ has over heroic raiding. And as someone pointed out, having up to 3 pieces of gear to choose from each week will mean the M+ player will gear out twice as fast as they do in BfA.
Let me actually present a very easy comparison for you to show you how M+ gearing is better than Heroic raiding. Have two players make a bet. One player can only do M+. The other can only do Heroic raiding. Neither can pvp, mythic raid, or do each other’s content (so M+ can’t do heroic raiding and vice-versa). Now have them make a bet on who will get a mythic ilvl weapon first. Who will win that one? 100 out of 100 times? I’m waiting for your answer.
Can you find a post where the raider complains about PvPers getting gear? How far back are you digging for that one? Also, what does that have to do anything with PvE M+ vs PvE Raid. You just did “whataboutism” which PvP has nothing to do with this convo.
But let me indulge you - a lot of top-end PvE’ers actually did PvP too to accelerate their PvE gear. And let’s not forget that Blood of the Enemy and Conflict and Strife were two PvP essences that were BiS minors for a lot of Raiders. So it seems like many PvErs actually did PvP, but I don’t recall them complaining about PvPers outgearing them.
Thats because once again, Raiding is a dying game mode, people dont want to raid.
Great example :). Except, I have killed Raden 17 times its 30 mins, there is zero killing of other bosses, and rarely do I have to kill trash. There is pretty much always a group on Raden.
Raden only drops a few items as well, what Void/Vita/Ugent? I think one other, ya I got all those, on the road to dual slappers.
Now lets compare that to Getting a Tusks from Underrot, a friend of mine did 47 Underrot 15s to get a single tusk. I got 2 slappers from 17 Raden kills.
Yes lets gloss over the fact that 9/10 that gear from the cache will be completely and utterly garbage. In 8 weeks, they could not get a single piece, happened to me this very patch. First week back I got super lucky, got me a 475 tusks, since then NOT 1 usable piece, 14 weeks later, not 1.
As to the PVP gear complaint, how do I show you PVErs complaining about PVP gear, when PVP gear does not exist, because of PVERs whining about PVP gear… You actually think anyone with a brain would complain about the joke that is current pvp gear system, thats rich.
The only thing more rich, is complaining about having to get a 1000 rating for CNS and doing some random BGs for BoTE.
Meanwhile I have 2 pieces of PVP gear equipped at all, because thats the only 2 pieces that are actually useful in slot… The rest of my gear, you guessed it, PVE to get gear for PVP.
You comparing your claws on Ra-den is called dumb luck. And yeah, you found a group now. Once again - you’re riding off of someone else’s work to have cleared to Ra-den. Let’s see how many people killed heroic Ra-den in the first couple weeks to how many people clearing a 15 in the first week.
And you AGAIN compared M+ weekly chests in BfA. Why are you doing that? You’ll have up to 3 choices in SL. And that’s 3 pieces of mythic tier loot a heroic raider won’t have the option for.
Anyhow. I give up trying to show you how Mythic gear > Heroic Gear. So you keep doing you and playing that garbage Classic that had its content completed 15 years ago. Enjoy TBC where it’s also a joke due to general knowledge of the fights and weak auras for bosses that didn’t even need DBM or big wigs back then.
You think people will run 10 m+ keys for 2 extra choices, you think thats even remotely equivalent to doing the ENTIRE raid on Herioc.
Thats comedy…
As to the Herioc part, you see I found a group? You act like its hard lololol, I find a group EVERY time, when my guild raids we clear it, if I pug it I clear it, within the first few weeks every time. You seem to be under the impression that everyone is a bad player, or that Heroic is hard. Neither are true lol.
“You got carried” ya, keep thinking that bud… Meanwhile, Ill stay in the top 3 DPS every group I join :). Playing a scripted boss, and pushing buttons in the correct order is not hard, literal brainless game play, the less thinking the better. Literal simon says memory match.
Literally nothing you said here applies to Raiding only compared to mythic plus. Once again, your sad attempts at insults prove nothing because both mythic plus and raiding are scripted events.
But you talk a big game. Can you post on your Retail main? I mean, first you start with how you really don’t do PvE, then you mentioned how you e ran bosses multiple times and always in the top 3 dps.
Sounds like a lot of hot air. Because right now you’re just posting on a Classic toon so I can’t really believe half the things you’re saying. Then again, it’s probably because half the things you’re saying don’t event add up.
I don’t understand what part doesn’t make sense to you?
Not liking PVE =/= Being bad at PVE lol. I just don’t find it enjoyable.
I did the bosses, because I have to to get gear for PVP welcome to New WoW. Where everyone is forced to take part in the archaic terrible game mode of raiding.
What part doesn’t make sense to me? The part that you try to say Heroic Raiding is easier than M+, but really don’t give any comparison as to why M+ is harder. And then you’ll say stuff like “M+ is easy too” and then disparage all PvE which means you’re really not providing any analysis that shows meaningful differences of one PvE content over the other.
And when I want to check your real experience in BfA content, you won’t post on your main so have no idea if you’re just making stuff up. You say you don’t really PvE, but then start listing all your PvE accomplishments. And you say stuff like this:
Hmmm. Nya came out in January, but the vendor came out in May?
So… which is it? Did you clear the raid in the first few weeks or did you come back to Retail late into the season?
Why are people so aversive of doing everything? I may not be 5k io, multi-hall of fame, multi-r1 player, with 50 character blasting through WQs and islands but I rather liked doing a bit of everything for 8.3. Yeah its tiresome but it makes for a more comprehensive player.
