Transmogs and disenchants ARE NOT need rolls. They are greed. You are being greedy saying you want to take away another player’s upgrade. No you do not NEED a transmog or one shard to progress in the game. The other player NEEDS the upgrade to progress in the game. This is the core reason why people hate this loot system. It is the toxic players who want to troll and screw others out of upgrades.
2 Likes
Nope, with personal they would use an addon to instantly whisper the person that got loot with a thoughtful “can I has”, then go rage mode when the answer is no.
Now it’s rage mode when they lose the roll.
So what has really changed?
But, if more than one person wants it the most acceptable thing to do is /roll, so someone is going to lose the roll anyway. Group loot get that out of the way automatically.
So you’re saying you deserve more rewards because you refuse to engage into more difficult content? Because it’s not about effort, that’s for damn sure.
I agree that PL in LFR is the better option though. But until that’s back, I’ll fight for an unrestricted GL. That’s just dumb.
I think it’s just perception, seeing the roll vs only seeing loot administered, the background mechanics which even if know isn’t necessarily something someone would think consciously of.
The largest difference between the two systems is that in one everyone rolls automatically but only get a single roll, whereas in GL a select portion are able to roll, but are able to do so on as many items as they are eligible for.
How the numbers work out is obviously varied depending on group layout and loot table, however it would be interesting to know what the difference in acquisition chance is between the two based on a reasonable assumed average in GL.
I’d assume it would be fairly similar due to no change in drop rate itself, however I imagine certain bosses would favour certain specs depending on their available loot, and once the loot is actually dropped the chance of winning would be significantly better than in PL.
I hate your question, because it’s honestly a trick question. Personal loot and group loot is essentially the same thing on paper. The difference? personal loot bypasses the element of Ninja Looting.
1 Like
There’s no ninja looting in Group Loot though so I dunno what you’re going on. But tbh between the bastardization that is current group loot and personal loot, I’ll take PL any day. At least I could get a chance at a reward.
I have not seen this happen in a PUG raid Ever. It only happened when I was doing progression raiding in a guild, and the gear went to whom it would benefit most. And if it would be a huge upgrade for multiple people, then they would all roll.
I think a lot of this argument is largely just a scenario that is made up by people to create a narrative. This is coming from my experience, where I have never seen it happen, outside an organized guild that is doing it for a reason. Or in an disorganized guild where for some reason people are scared of a GM kicking them, so they let themselves get walked on.
This is purely perception of the events. Which I do agree does influence how we feel about the event. But in reality it is the same situation as now.
This is another perception thing. Between SL and now, we are supposedly getting the same amount of loot. I have some chars that loot rained down on them for 2 weeks this expac. I have others that struggle to get drops. And like this char, they have hit a 1.5 week dry spell.
Again this is a perception thing. I saw plenty of similar drama in PL where you would get people not trading items that they didnt need, or a group of people carrying their friend in a raid and funneling loot to them. I have been in a PuG where the carry player got multiple items, from individual bosses, and no one in the pug could do anything, because the people who were carrying them were carrying the DPS of the raid.
I agree this is a problem with the system. But this is to prevent players from putting their fingers on the scale and stacking raids for drops. I am not sure the solution, but without this a lot of PuGs would be incentivized to stack the raid for their tier tokens, only creating drama.
I would argue that this is purely a perception thing. As while I did see a lot of gear going up for rolls to be traded, I also saw people losing the rolls against others in PL. Which again is what happens now. A person in the raid who presses Pass, could be that person who offers the item up for roll, and the people roll need for it.
There was plenty of toxicity in PL, with people class stacking to influence drops.
Now I do agree that group loot has its own issues. And I do feel that there needs to be more bad luck protection for players.
One idea I have is that have a weekly credit… When you kill a boss in the raid and do not win loot, you get a credit. If you fill out your vault without getting an item, you have enough credits to pick two a second item out of the vault. Logistically I have no idea how it would work, but for those who get unlucky with rolls or drops, it gives you 1 extra item. Or maybe only have it work for the raid row.
There is no perfect loot system. Both personal loot and group loot had their flaws. And for me, I am fine with either, but I really want to see a system that discourages class stacking, but doesnt punish group comps without certain classes/specs. And I have no idea how to combat that.
i personally don’t care what loot system is implemented if i don’t enjoy it i just quit in 2023. after 20 yrs there shouldn’t even be no loot changes at this point. i don’t blame blizz i blame the players cause they just can’t stop taking advantage of any loot system if you can. should of just changed personal loot to all things can be traded no matter what and been done with it.
Currently, if 2 identical items drop, it is possible, albiet rare, for both pieces to go to one person. This is bad, but being fixed in 10.0.5. However, also in 10.0.5, people who only do LFR for transmog are going to become second class citizens, who are not even allowed to roll…PL would have prevented this. I like GL in all raids, except LFR.
1 Like
People get angry when you roll need on an item that’s 15 ilvls lower then what you already have. Idgaf how it worked before or works now. Blizzard re inventing the wheel never works out until a .3 patch if you even get a .3 patch.
Anyone can click need. Unless they changed how that works for dragon flight. I cannot say. But I’m assuming it the same as originally being if you need it you click need. And if it’s not restricted to class/spec during that drop, then it’s basically open roll. Meaning a rogue can need on that sweet staff of yours.
They changed it in Dragonflight. There are class/spec restrictions on rolls.
So you are arguing a point. But you are not informed on the topic, nor understand how it works.
And then you go on to try to further your point and argument with false information, which you are assuming to be correct, purely because it helps further the narrative which you created in your argument.
This is probably the best example of why there is so much drama of GL vs. PL. Simply because people create all these narratives and explanations on why they dont get any loot under either system and how unfair it is. Not just bad RNG luck.
Both systems have flaws. Both systems have benefits. And I have no idea what the best middle ground would be.
I posted a thread about that that unsurprisingly received basically no attention because I was offering a solution and not just whining, like many of these. They should let me roll need on any item my class can use, with the caveat that if I already have a higher version of that piece, I would be last in priority. It makes it so that in the very rare event that the piece drops and nobody needs, I’m not left stranded rolling against 24 other people that can’t even unlock the transmog.
As I said before, PL allows people who only do LFR for transmog a chance to pursue what they’re after. If all you want is LFR transmog, but you’re a heroic raider, you’re no longer going to have any opportunity to get those pieces. It’s bad.
My only gripe with GL is when I roll on (even an LFR) piece of loot and get outrolled by someone wearing the exact. same. piece. but from Normal/Heroic/Mythic.
IMO - looting an item on any difficulty should give you the xmog of all lower tiers for that item. Then you just disallow “need” rolls for items that (a) aren’t upgrades and/or (b) items whose appearance has already been acquired
1 Like
so then you agree. PL it is.
they need to hide loot rolls from players eyes. then itll be group loot but feels like personal loot. you either get the piece or you dont
Not receiving gear because the RNG deities didn’t smile on me is one thing.
Not receiving gear because someone else won it instead of me is another thing.
If you are focused merely on outcome, then honestly there isn’t a huge difference between PL and GL.
If you are focused on feeling like the system is fair, there is a huge difference between PL and GL.
I have been playing long enough that I think ML and GL was always garbage and ripe for abuse, and I think that PL might not be as “exciting” but I think it’s more fair in the end.
I think that pre-made raids should be able to use ML.
I think that random “finder” groups should use PL.
1 Like
if the goal is to get transmog pieces, then getting new one added is in fact progress.
But the systems as they are, are both fair. The only caveat is that in PL you could make it unfair by stacking the raid.
As many have said. Having higher difficulties unlock the appearances of the lower difficulties would be ideal for tmog collectors.
The only difference is the perception of losing. If you dont win a roll in both systems you lose. Only with GL you see that you lost to someone. And that is where the problem is. People, universally dont like the feeling of losing.