We have all seen post after post… So Here is another one.
I am curious as to if they just dont understand how either worked. Because it seems the bulk are angry that they lose a roll, and someone else gets the loot. For the many different reasons the person who won the roll chose to roll. The person sees that they lost the roll and are angry, because they feel is should have been theirs.
Here is the main question. Do they believe that if it was on personal loot, that they would have gotten the item because it dropped? Because it just feels like in their complaints they are assuming that if it was personal loot, they would have won the item instead.
Some things are justified, or at least could be reason as justified. Players walking away with multiple tier tokens off the same boss after NEEDing, because the system doesn’t acknowledge they have a token-produced item when they’re rolling. That’s being fixed apparently so devs must agree.
Most seem to have anecdotal “evidence” from SL when they would “always get 1-2 pieces from a raid.”
Hidden rolls don’t seem to bother players, they accept PL and go on with their day. But if they see themselves lose the roll, it’s somehow unfair and they gripe about it. I really don’t get it.
I am not angry but was pulled into raid week 1. Three caster pieces dropped, warlock won all three, two from same boss. Don’t know if something is supposed to stop this but it felt very much a let down to of put six hours into raid to see only one person I will never play with again get everything while all the other casters went hungry.
There is some merit to not being able to see yourself actively losing out on loot because another player decided they want to DE everything they can roll need on.
In Personal Loot, it was just “ugh, bad RNG again”
In Group Loot, it’s “this player is literally stealing loot from me”.
One feels worse than the other, by a lot, IMO.
PL is just the system, GL is player greed.
people have brought up multiple reasons why they do not like group loot but you are trying to make it seem like the majority of posts are “i should get all the loot”
if that is your take away from reading all the posts about PL and GL then you are just willfully being ignorant or purposefully straw manning their complaints
they just want a fair rolling system, regardless of who wins
As much as I want to say that it should not happen, I don’t see how they can fix it, and while I do believe GL has no place in LFR, in an organized group, I don’t think Blizzard is balancing with pugs in mind. I don’t believe any raid leader worth their salt is gonna let one guy win 3 items off the same boss and even in the insane event that they do, that’s one player that won’t need much off of the next boss or week.
personal loot was all automated. Everyone there knew they might get something, they might not not because of players just clicking dice but because the computer server said so. It was anoying to have dry runs but you got that sometimes you got loaded.
All GL does is remove the computer element and let everyone see that, yes indeed, the overgeared raider did just “need” on that item they have no intention of using. Its less bad luck and more “wow, like why?”. The issue is more of a social one than a “i dont get loot”, even though it all is in fact people not getting loot. It only comes up now because its forward facing and everyone can see that its merely the choice of the person who doesnt “need” but is still taking anyway.
It should stay with the randomly assigned computer generated loot for crossrealm matchmade content to eliminate the perceived feelings of being hosed by a high level
Heres something blizz could do for crossrealm matchmade content - not have loot drops visible at all. If you get a drop no one can see it
The part you don’t get, OP, is that group loot did not result in less competition for a roll - it resulted in more. It’s like group loot was being advertised as something that would result in more loot opportunities but it has not.
In personal loot you only got what you could use.
In group loot anyone can roll on anything they can use.
Group loot would be better if people that didn’t NEED an upgrade were not competing with those that do.
As a result, it’s seemingly worse than personal loot.
As an alternative - it would be better to use a system for loot that didn’t overly rely on pure RNG as well as operate in a competitive pool of anonymous players. (Yes, I get that’s what guild runs are for)
I would suggest things like bad-luck protection that operated at an individual to loot basis. If after N attempts, the individual hasn’t won an item they would get hidden bonuses to their role, X, that would essentially boost their luck in two ways. One is for seeing the drop and the other is for winning it. Some items may have a very large N or may increase X slowly while others are more common. Having RNG isn’t bad if it has other mechanisms around it that eventually provide rewards with diligence.
Of course we had other systems that accounted for this before… with currency and being able to eventually buy the items you want if you didn’t win them.
Anywho - that’s my TED talk. Let me know if you’d like an implementation for what I just described uncle Blizzard.
As far as I’m aware, GL is only a thing cause apparently players wanted to see something drop off the boss, as it always was before the advent of personal loot. They never advertised it would result in more gear. The end result is the exact same, the same amount of loot.
I could use it for transmog or disenchant for powerful enchant materials. In a situation where I won’t see you or any of the other 23 rando ever again, why are you entitled to more reward under the pretext that you don’t participate in other better avenues of gear? We both participated in the kill didn’t we?
And hell, I’m not even certain to have anything. The piece has to drop, I have to win the roll. In this current situation, I don’t even have the chance at rolling at it at all. Off the start, I’m certain to get NOTHING at all from this ordeal.
What I don’t like, and the biggest glaring issue with this pos system as is: Groups are punished severely for not bringing every loot class and/or being a small group. My 10 man raid of close friends regularly lacks entire classes and some nights even entire armor classes. When plate drops and we don’t have single plate wearer, it is a massive blow to our team. At the very least with PL, the loot dropped to a member of raid who can use it, even if they choose not to.
If they made it only drop items usable by the raid, i have no problem GL. As it is though, it inferior to PL. Also people can STILL obtain multiple tier pieces by rolling and winning them all. A bug that STILL isn’t fixed, and LFR whackos trying to sell on their server for 100k+. Pathetic.
I think everyone wants this, the devs have stated that the main gripes with the loot system are mostly bugs
winning multiple tier tokens off the same boss
rolling need on items lower IL than what you have on
being able to need roll off spec items
most complaints are about the bugs and not the actual system but nobody really judges the system on whats its supposed to be, they just look at the bugs and go “bad system”
I mean, i dont understand how come you managed to cherry pick that line, while ignoring like, everything. Including the first 5 words of my entire post. Like im guessing typing in response here is a waste of time. I know how it works, I ALREADY SAID SO IN THE FIRST 5 WORDS… But cherry picking to argue is way cooler obviously.
No wonder you blew past the point i made about “perceived” anti social rolling. Being anti social is your point.
I mean again perceived anti social feelings. If i was min ilvl and you were max ilvl and we both did an lfr boss and pl gave you the loot. I would say to myself “bummer, nothing…” and move on to the next boss. I guess you’d be like “bleh have this already vendor/shard”. No one would be up in arms. Where as if i saw you hitting need on something which was not in any way an upgrade and you took it merely cause the dice lit up. That comes across as less cool. “Perceived feelings” of anti social action. You even said it yourself. Because its you and a bunch of faceless no ones who you’ll never see again. It was already bad enough, lfr already suffered with trolls and griefers. They now get to add need rolling on stuff they will not right-click equip to the list of available tactics
