no one denies a few priests stayed behind whats your point? a couple elves doesnt change anything
High elves did not gather in any significant numbers and are a very small group of individuals. [2]
whats more recent?
youre trying to claim that a significant number of elves stayed back after the second war. its flat out a joke
you should go back to ad hominems if thats the best you can muster
I liked the first part not the second part.
I also don’t judge people trying in earnest to create conversations regarding this topic. I think she’s being hyperbolic with her sentiment, but I do enjoy debating
If it was a significant number dev statements wouldn’t constantly solidify what a non factor the “High Elves who stayed” was
Mine, from 2016. Yours is from 2006.
Lmao, no, I’m not. You’re not following at all. My only argument was that this group of high elves, which broke away from Quel’Thalas after the Second War to serve the Alliance instead, likely makes up the majority of Alliance-aligned high elves we see in the game today. Nothing more.
What about all this offends you so much? I haven’t once implied that it raises their population. Only that, for the most part, that is their population.
they dont have a population you havent posted anything that proves a large presence and no one is denying a couple exist. nothing anywhere gives you a population or anything beyond a few scattered individuals. and again, devs have clarified this
is this the part where you try to claim neutral dalaran elves now? ad hominem time? just stop responding time?
enjoy your void elf and fanfictions for it
I think I’ll go with this one. You’ve misconstrued my argument so badly I don’t know what to tell you.
6 elves isn’t worth talking about tbh
When asked in 2017 if there were any Alliance High Elf hubs left ion flat out said “I don’t think so”
In 2018 he remarked how they were only a couple and not out there in the same way as Alleria, so the very small amount of High Elf individuals that are “Alliance” don’t even exist in a capacity comparable to Void Elves lol
its a joke. they act like quel’thalas left behind an army or population after the second war
and when pressed for proof of a large presence in the alliance they have nothing. no ones ever said a couple dont exist but they cant provide anything to prove differently
There was enough to show as a force in Suramar but that was before Alleria went Void.
Now you know how I feel.
Not just there. We have the attack of Theramore where the Silver Covenant fielded forces to protect the city only to watch in horror when the mana bomb dropped. Then in MoP in the Isle of Thunder the High Elves fielded their militia forces on behalf of the Kirin Tor. Then in Legion they sent troops to represent them in the Hunter lodge. Even as recently as BFA we see more of these guys fighting in the 7th Legion as their mages.
We have cited you proof. If you don’t agree that’s on you.
Yeah, I agree with his remark about there likely being more Void Elves since Ion was trying to hype up people playing Void Elves and snuff out criticism which remember back then was vitriolic on the subject. Honestly the High Elf fan base needs to give up on ever playing them. It’s Void or Blood that’s the choices when playing Thalassian elves.
I don’t recall them being in the Hunter lodge unless it was a drop in during a scenario.
Did have a Dark Ranger there though.
Remember helping Vereesa with getting the artifact Marksman bow? There was a few scenarios with Silver Covenant troops. They are also seen walking around the lodge.
The plight of the Unseen Path is supported by each of the elven factions, and other non-elven members, with a fitting background in the craft.
- The night elven Sentinels, huntresses, hunters and archers of Kalimdor’s Sentinel Army, led by General Shandris Feathermoon.
- The blood elven Farstriders, elite rangers and protectors of Quel’Thalas, led by Halduron Brightwing, Ranger-General of Silvermoon.
- The rangers of the Silver Covenant, a military wing of Dalaran, led by Vereesa Windrunner, Ranger-General of the Silver Covenant
- The dark rangers of the Forsaken, led by Dark Ranger Velonara on Sylvanas Windrunner’s behalf.I could see this going either way. As you note, Kael’thas had to return home to deal with the aftermath of the Scourge invasion, as he, ironically enough in retrospect, had been one of the Quel’dorei who maintained his connections and obligations to the Alliance and the world outside Quel’Thalas after his father removed Quel’Thalas from the Alliance. Yet, in Shadowlands he tells both Sin’dorei and Ren’dorei players that “Nine of every ten of us,” were slain by Arthas in the invasion, including himself in the 10% that lived, even though he was not present for the attack. That would seem to imply that the 90% death rate statistic was across all of the Quel’dorei on Azeroth, not just those in Quel’Thalas at the time of the invasion. I would not, however, include the Quel’dorei trapped in Outland in that statistic, since they would have already been assumed lost at that point.
Overall, though, I don’t think the specific details matter that much. The broad point is that the Scourge invasion wiped out the vast majority of Quel’dorei, and of those that survived the vast majority adopted the name Sin’dorei. Personally, I’d argue that this means there’s a real possibility that the overall majority of Thalassian elves still walking around on Azeroth are undead, existing as Forsaken, Ebon Blade, or Scourge, with the Sin’dorei being the second largest group and the largest playable faction of Thalassian elves.
This gets tricky though, because that group of anti-isolationist Alliance-aligned Quel’dorei that broke away from Quel’Thalas pre-Third War includes both Kael’thas and Rommath, who held high-ranking positions in Dalaran. We don’t know how many of those returned home with Kael’thas and took up the Sin’dorei name, or broke away from the Alliance because of Garithos, but we know that there were some.
His dialogue there is one of my favorite things in Shadowlands, though the line I like most is only available when the player isn’t playing a Blood/Void Elf: “You still bleed, do you not? Cut your flesh and count the drops of blood. Let nine fall and soak the earth for every one you save. Tell me what that does to your heart, -player character name-. For I can tell you precisely what it did to mine.”
The 90% were killed directly by the Scourge, the withdrawal symptoms weren’t apparent until after the corrupted Sunwell was destroyed. That’s why the need to find a cure or management solution was so vital; 90% of the elves had already been killed, and then in addition to that survivors who were very young or very old started dying from withdrawals as time passed. With their youngest children unable to adapt to the loss of the Sunwell, extinction was a very real possibilty, and it’s that fear that explains both Kael’thas’ desperation to find a cure and Lor’themar’s exile (but not execution) of those who shunned the mana tapping of living creatures.
Something that I think should be kept in mind is that the reason Halduron asked Vereesa for assistance wasn’t because Silvermoon didn’t have enough Farstriders in general, but that most of them were out on assignment and could not be recalled easily on short notice. It is noteworthy that Vereesa could rally enough rangers to be worth contacting, but this instance doesn’t really give us any idea of how big the Silver Covenant is compared to the Farstriders. I know that’s not necessarily what you were getting at, but I thought it worth adding to the general conversation.
That was specifically the Silver Covenant, not a generic group of Alliance Quel’dorei, and Vereesa had already shown her willingness to insert herself into anything involving Sin’dorei goals. She would have been there even if she only had a dozen elves backing her up. Don’t get me wrong, it’s noteworthy that they were there at all, but I wouldn’t take that instance as indicative of their overall numbers. It’s not like the Silver Covenant has a lot to do aside from go where Vereesa tells them, they’re not tasked with also protecting a nation like the Farstriders are.
Yep, and if you’re playing a Blood Elf hunter she has extra trash talk for you beyond what she says to other Horde players. I actually like that she has different quest text in this instance, but the rest of the order hall does make me wonder why she makes remarks about not being able to stand the Sin’dorei leadership and then works with Halduron without any sign of animosity. It feels like I’m missing some sort of backstory there.
I agree with part of your assessment, but to pushback. The Silver Covenant had numbers that Halduron felt could supplement his own troops who were not available and he also knew that they knew Quel’thelas better than most allies. In fact, outside of his own Farstriders, the Silver Covenant were the perfect forces to fight the Amani since they’ve done so for centuries while they were all united as High Elves and even after their exile their expertise and effectiveness has not waned.
You make good points, but I’ll provide context for Vereesa so between Cata Zul’Aman resurgence was the destruction of Theramore. Vereesa was present that day and saw the mana bomb drop on her husband. Killing him and scarring the very land itself. After that… Vereesa got very vindictive against Blood Elves, before she hated they joined the Horde and worse that they drained mana from living creatures, but then they murdered her husband. Knowingly or unknowingly the Blood Elves really did a number to her and she took their actions in MoP personally and she took joy in sating her revenge during the Isle of Thunder event.
Overall, the Silver Covenant should be merged with the Void Elf forces since that would at least create a cohesive Alliance unified faction of Thalassians. If we ever do see an update to Quel’thelas, I hope Lorthemar reaches out to Alleria and Vereesa and establishes a Convocation of the Elves and create a government of all Thalassians and exiles would be repatriated to the kingdom, but not the Horde faction. Especially now that come Dragonflight we have cross faction play. Lore wise this would be the perfect moment for a new age for the elves of Quel’thelas.
With the void elves getting the High Elf customization, I think it would have been a good thing to somehow show the rest of the High Elves getting void corrupted so that Void Elves are not just 12 people and Comrade Umbric.
From my observations the main mission of the Silver Covenant was to counter or match anything the Sunreavers were doing, but I think that they’ve declined as a group post Legion whereas the Sunreavers seem to be holding on to their status.
oh no don’t take the blood elves away oh no that’d suck
Actually, in the Shadowlands prelaunch event the Silver Covenant actually led the charge in Icecrown and when the Scourge attacked the Argent grounds, they defended it. So, lore wise they haven’t declined. Just not as prominent in Shadowlands. They were prominent in Legion, SL prelaunch, MoP, Cata, Wotlk, and BFA was the only expansion where they weren’t prominent or in the background though one can argue in the Arathi Highlands battle we had High Elven mages part of the 7th Legion who were also likely from the SC.
That’s what I’m saying the two factions need to be merged and if they can use Wrathion’s potion to stop the void whispers that he made for Ebyssian. Then that would provide enough leeway to say all remaining High Elves chose the path of the Void and are now led by the two Windrunner sisters.
i think kael only cared about dalaran. the sunreavers(who are the only elves given credit for being citizens of dalaran for thousands of years) were only friendly with other human mages in dalaran. the alliance had many human kingdoms but contact seemed limited to only dalaran
i would. the number was given to us from a holistic view of the lore. kael talking about it in shadowlands is i believe the first mention of it in game or out by any character and doesnt change that imo
the elves who stayed after the second war is a reference to the few elves that followed jaina around basically. its the only thing that makes sense(they were always in dalaran and had their own part of the city after all) and those elves would accompany jaina to theramore and later die with the rest of theramore
its subjective but my interpretation is the farstriders are too busy and scattered whereas the SC is just sitting there idly by in dalaran with no obligations. i mean ofc their numbers are dwarfed by the farstriders, its not that she had enough rangers that made it worth contacting its that they were available and the more you can bring to a fight the better
farstriders have beefs with magisters because they were lobbying for quel’thalas to join the horde and the methods they used to silence opposition. literally everything the magisters were doing. too reliant on the magic that had damned them, draining from living beings, blood knights(who are a magister creation) squeezing the light out of a naaru
