She is a tyrant who made herself a leader even ignoring the so called council taking the Forsaken army with her on a secret mission no one else knew about.
No she left and returned to be with her people who the majority are in the Horde. She isn’t Alliance, she’s a bridge between both factions because of her personal history and connections. Turalyon would never harm her, nor would Greymane who knew her father. The Forsaken capital city will be revealed with the revamp of Northern Eastern Kingdoms including Lordaeron. Likely a neutral city like Gilneas.
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She is a normal human priest and all er friends are alliance leaders. Her entire purpose is to continue the appaesement and land ceding started by Thrall and Baine.
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Her closest friend seems to be Lilian Voss and Alonsus Faol, she also gets along with her fellow undead in the Desolate Council. She is friends with the nobility of the Alliance by way of her father. It’s a silly argument just because Greymane may care for her as a person or Turalyon doesn’t mean she is exclusively friends with them.
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Yes it does. Nowhere ingame she interacts with anyone else. Stop forcing her on us. We reject her and her purpose. And the white savior trope.
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Dude replay the retaking of Lordaeron and the reclamation of Gilneas Horde side. Yeah she does interact and helps the Forsaken and the Horde. Especially in Shadowlands and at the end of BFA. She helps the Horde mend their relations with the Alliance and gives her people hope that they can live with their neighbors in Gilneas.
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The Shadowlands that retconned Necromancy ans was a fourth wall break to justify Calia in every sense? Yeah I remember. I always kno it is usally the high elves who love it when the Horde gets something bad.
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Calia’s daughter is not a noble, by Calia’s own admission. She married a comon foot soldier. Her daughter has no claim to the throne. The line ended with Arthas.
The Scarlet Brotherhood think they have her male heir sired by an Arathi Nobleman. A “real” heir. Neither heir is eligible for the throne.
The royal Menethil line is dead.
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There is no lore stating that a child of a non-noble that marries into the Menethil line has no claim. Calia’s daddy dearest might not have approved and I assume Calia didnt want her daughter/husband to get embroiled in royal politics but you are fundamentally making up lore in saying she would have no claim.
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That’s how monarchy works. It’s not “making it up” it’s based on irl rules of succession and aristocracy.
That’s if the ruling family isn’t wiped out by the undead and thier kingdom not destroyed in the process. Which Lordaeron was. There’s no heir to Lordaeron. Lordaeron is a kingdom of corpses, who cannot repoduce.
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The rules of succession are whatever the current monarch wants and whatever the ruling class agrees, assuming the peasantry will allow it. The ruling family was not wiped out in totality and just like how Napoleon was arrested and exiled while in France the surviving Bourbons were crowned again. The same happened with Calia Menethil and should she declare her daughter or whomever her successor. It changes the argument. We shall see.
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I see more succession talk. Need I remind everyone
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Sylvanas usurped the kingdom and took it with violence against the living who worked with her and her people the benefit of the doubt. Post Fourth War the Forsaken suffered the biggest losses in the Battle for Lordaeron, Darkshore and in the theaters of war since Legion when the worgen hunted them all over the Broken Isles.
The Forsaken post Fourth War lost their kingdom and lived as refugees in Ogrimmar and those who still openly supported Sylvanas were arrested by the Horde council. Sylvanas basically used them as a bulwark against damnation and they suffered for it. Then came Calia of her own free will to help rebuild the Forsaken people and Lordaeron. She helped cleanse it. Joined the Desolate Council. Since BFA/Shadowlands has ruled with the Council and now I guess is the leader. Rules of succession maybe whatever the Desolate Council allows. Calia thus far has worked with the Forsaken to rebuild Lordaeron city and even secure the holdings as seen in the heritage questline. Now she helped the worgen retake Gilneas. Why not just appreciate that a Menethil sits at the head of Lordaeron and the Forsaken people now robustly identify not with Sylvanas, and her cult, but with their roots as citizens of Lordaeron?
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Applying real world rules of succession ignores one big element that no real world kingdoms ever faced.
At no point in history had an exception been made to the rules of succession in the event that the prince joined a zombie army, killed his father with a soul-eating sword to assume the throne by force, then have his subjects eaten by a zombie apocalypse, only to then die at the hands of 10 or 25 adventurers while a banshee-zombie elf archer stole his zombie kingdom.
I doubt Azeroth had an exception to the rules of succession due to zombie apocalypse either.
Sylvanas is not a usurper.
Calia is certainly not a usurper, as she had a legitimate claim to the throne.
Neither is a usurper.
But both rulerships/queendoms are the victims of poor storytelling.
And screw all of you for making me say anything in defense of Calia.
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I concede post Third War the establishing of the Forsaken nation was a replacement of Lordaeron and even an inversion of what it once was. From worship of the Light to the Shadow and once a city that prospered in the Light to a city in the sewers that prospered in darkness. Now I guess it’s a city of both? Idk what Blizzard is playing here, but I agree both queendoms are legitimate since Sylvanas did garner the authority from the people, and power should be vested in those people who wanted her, but she then did brainwash them and used them as her personal defense against all the enemies she’s made. Then threw them away when they were no longer convenient after destroying their city to give the finger to the Alliance. Then flies off to be the majordomo of WoW’s version of Satan or better Hades?
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Calia, much to my appreciation, did next to nothing during the heritage quest other than stand there and offered a single quest along with little to no flavor text. It was almost completely Voss, Belmont, Velonara, and Faranell. She helped just as much as Baine did in Shadowlands. It is criminal that she, of all people, was the Forsaken’s one connection to the Shadowlands and Maldraxxus, but I digress here.
The identity of the Forsaken has moved beyond a Menethil legacy. Terenas no longer mattered, Arthas destroyed the Kingdom, Calia was MIA. Their singular focus for the fist 6 years was absolute destruction and vengeance after what Arthas did. Post Wrath it was about creating a new identity, a Forsaken identity. Lets not pretend that the writing for Sylvanas was actually planned 20 years out to be revealed in Shadowlands in what we have now. Her characterization was bounced back and forth for years between the Forsaken’s liberator, steward, and dedicated (if not a little war crimey) leader and super Satan pawn in addition to be handled by a raging misogynist and other devs who wanted their playable Scourge.
Short of the 4th War when super Satan became a plan (that as has been established over time had to of been a 180 by the narrative team) the Forsaken largely flourished. Most shortcomings (Gilneas) was largely Garrosh’s doing and his (read:Afrasiabi) hatred/distrust for the Forsaken and Sylvanas. They reclaimed swaths of land, established control, and rebuilt their homes from decaying ruins proper standing buildings.
The Forsaken have always been the Forsaken. Any proper cult surrounding Sylvanas has been, once again, a recent development by Golden, Danuser, and Afrasiabi on his way out. The Forsaken stagnated from a lack of diverse characters, absolutely, however a cult following the way it is often described it is not. She was, objectively, their liberator and defender held in high regard.
Even if we take this cult as true, does having a Menethil now be the new figure head any better? Does her seemingly increasing role as “Queen” actually change anything - pushing the rest of the council into the background? That instead of a liberator, a complex character as we attempt to untangle the mess of the past 5 years, we have an objective white savior stand in to make the Forsaken “good.”
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And that somehow makes you have complete control over ALL of the plaguelands as you claimed?
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I’m curious if they actually retain Andorhal since Scholomance per the Exploring the Eastern Kingdoms book is still active and would be hostile to the Forsaken and their necromancers have shown the ability to control undead like Liliana Voss. If I was a free willed undead I would stay clear of a place with necromancers who can bind me into their service. Plus during the Fourth War the Alliance took Tirisfal and held it. It would seem insane if they left Andorhal to Horde hands especially since its so close to their areas of control.
I can see post Fourth War the Alliance giving it back, but they took more lands from the Forsaken and per the accords only gave back Tirisfal. No mention of Andorhal that I remember. Though maybe they did, but seems like a blunder considering how much is now under the control of the Argents and Alliance proxies.
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Imperliast occupation forces of Stormwind don’t have any rights.
You do realize the Horde lost the war right? I think if anything the Alliance giving up on Capital City was perhaps the biggest blow to their morale, but seeing how blighted it was by Sylvanas they didn’t see any reason to keep it and with Calia Menethil returning to Lordaeron and being made a leader. They saw that as an act of good will, but I can’t say one way or another especially since the dream of the humans is a resurgent Alliance controlling the 7 kingdoms save Lordaeron directly.
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