PvP Premades

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

Good ideas OP. Premade dodging and farming low geared players for honor is a dishonorable, uncompetitive practice and definitely a problem in Vanilla, as it was back then(I remember because I primarily PvP’d), and should be fixed.

I personally think the problem stems from the honor system. If you could reach R14 solo, and your progress wasn’t compared with other players, there would be far less incentive to group up.

What’s more is that premades would still reach R14 faster under this new system, but solo players could still reach it, just more slowly. I agree that this probably wouldn’t eliminate the problem, but it could at least help to alleviate it.

So in addition to that, you would now only be able to be matched with people who que as group against people who que as group. That way if you have a 5 stack on the enemy team, you can only enter a BG once there is another group of 5 players queuing to make it fair, just like it is in other matchmaking-based games.

So yeah, there are definitely solutions to this problem. But the toxic honor system needs to be fixed as well. Currently it is impossible for instance, a person with a dayjob to reach R14, and R14 doesn’t even give that great gear in 1.12.1 of Vanilla.

If you are a “hardcore” player either way, I don’t think you should be trying to gear through PvP. PvP gear should be designed for people who enjoy PvP as an alternative for PvE. For example, compare AV epics to PvE gear. Those reputation rewards are a nice alternative.

Honor system should ideally be more like that, with R14 not being some nigh-unreachable, prestigious rank, but a generic all PvP’rs are expected to reach at some point, as long as they PvP alot, some faster than others.

As a plus side, this would give an actual tangible goal for PvP’rs as well. I mean, let’s face it, a rank that can only be reached by up to 52 people on your server per faction per year is not exactly a feasible goal for 99% players, and can’t be, because it’s limited to just 52 people per year.

See what you did? Open a post complaining about how the game was played back in the day . . . . and in jumps an opportunist trying to scuttle the whole honor system because it was too hard.

No changes.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

By choosing to queue solo, you’re choosing to accept the downsides of playing with a PUG in exchange for the convenience solo queue’ing offers you.

If you feel the convenience isn’t worth playing with a weaker team, join a premade or form your own.

That’s fine, premades intentionally abusing queues to avoid other premades though is not.

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

No changes.

Quit whining.

[Laeric-wyrmrest-accord]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject, I’m not much of a PVPer… but didn’t the honor grind actually get improved in 1.12?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject, I’m not much of a PVPer… but didn’t the honor grind actually get improved in 1.12?

Sort of CRBG’s helped queue times a lot which helped anyone trying to honor grind if they were on a realm/faction with bad queue times.

It did make it easier for premades to avoid each other though.

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

Honor System was revamped in 2.0.1.

Cross realm battlegroups came out earlier - lowered queue times but trashed intra-realm rivalry.

[Kolben-icecrown (Kolben)]

Is there any interest in addressing this?

As has been mentioned before, it’s in both faction’s premades’ best interests to Q-dodge one another, perhaps even collaborating to do so.

For those unfamiliar, Premade vs Premade could last hours (no timer in Vanilla) while PuGs are efficiently farmed for honor which is necessary to climb ranks.

I’m very much against breaking the functionality of pre-made PVP.

This is an MMO, where you are supposed to be able to do things like queue for WSG with 9 of your friends.

The other thing is, and it’s easier said than done, is to “get gud”. The PVP solution to something like this is to just play better and bring your own pre-made (which you cover). Anyone can create a pre-made and queue up just like the rankers do. You cover this in your final paragraph and in my opinion it is the right way to deal with it. Normalize and socialize making pre-mades, not restrictions on who you can play with.

Artificially breaking that because a pre-made will usually beat a bunch of randoms doing their own thing fighting mid is so antithetical to what MMOs are about.

I am #teamnochanges. However, to limit the ability of a pre-made to graveyard farm for hours I would support a 30 minute time limit. It is one of the best changes Blizzard made. The only people who will be mad about this are the graveyard campers and I say tough jerky nerds.

[Magicmon-illidan]

There will be cross realm BGs so hopfully we never run into premaids. Hopefully they will have premaids vs premaids to keep all the try hard losers togeather only fair.

[Mergons-terenas]

I guess we can’t allow pre made raids to clear pve content to happen too, going by OP’s logic.

[Mergons-terenas]

Maybe we should get rid of solo queue for Pvp, only allowing full groups to head in.

[Mairamen-chromaggus]

I may be remembering incorrectly, but weren’t both ‘queue dodging’ and ‘win trading’ actionable offences ? Trying to circumvent game mechanics by ‘clever’ use of loopholes.

[Kolben-icecrown (Kolben)]

Win trading yes. Queue dodging I don’t think so because it is harder to prove.

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

In my recollection, the win trades and queue dodging were a relatively late vanilla phenomena - as the release of TBC loomed, people seemed to get more frantic about getting their stuff before the honor system was shut down. Both issues were ugly and everyone talked about them, but I don’t remember them being dominant.

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

There will be cross realm BGs so hopfully we never run into premaids. Hopefully they will have premaids vs premaids to keep all the try hard losers togeather only fair.

This isn’t known. Blizzard hasn’t made their intentions clear here. I personally prefer longer queue times to preserve realm identity. CRBG was very late to appear in Vanilla and I hope it will not be introduced. Vanilla has a lot of things to do, so having to wait for a queue to pop isn’t the worst thing that can happen. One player solution is to stir up rivalry with the other faction by trash talking in the forums and informally arranging best times to queue for BGs.

[Magicmon-illidan]

Yea all the premaids que dodge and every single nerd in those groups should be perma banned

[Shibah-spirestone]

Special premade queues do more harm than good.

Rejecting a bg queue pop should give you a 15 minute deserter debuff.

[Mairamen-chromaggus]

Special premade queues do more harm than good.

This here is what is/was currently plaguing the Twink PvP scene in Retail. Anyone with XP-Off can’t queue for normal BGs anymore.

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

Sort of CRBG’s helped queue times a lot which helped anyone trying to honor grind if they were on a realm/faction with bad queue times.

This is untrue. You only compete with others in your faction and on your realm for honor points and rank. If the queue times were bad for you, they were also bad for your competition.

[Starz-boulderfist]

Oh how shocking you want changes…

[Xanthak-durotan (Xanthak)]

Pro tip. If you’re in a pre-made in PvP gear with high stam, you CAN beat a guild team made up of primarily PvE ers with superior gear.

BGs is about the team. Not the individual. A player can have 0 killing blows or whatever it was and still be the best player. If you were chasing kills, you were doing your team a disservice.

Now, if you’re talking about open world PvP, different story.