Explain how that’s relevant?
I would not say gear is king for all classes in vanilla… Mostly just healers, and even then a really good healer can still be very effective even with minimal gear assuming he get’s peels and aid from his team.
As for warriors on the other hand… 100% dependent on gear, I don’t know how melee paladin is but I assume it’s like a warrior in this way…
I know hunter, rogue, frost mage, warlock, priest, shaman, all do extremely well even with poor gear.
The best part about being in a random group of Solo Q players is finding the 1 or 2 that you can work well with and after the game and form your own pre-made and start curb stomping other groups.
How is that relevant? LOL 12k players vs 3k players… maybe… among other things. Pservers always have a few hardcore guild with players that have been playing in almost every Pserver. So it’s very centralized, as which in classic it won’t be.
Typical Pserver player…
Totally agree. I think we’re on the same page on what makes Vanilla amazing.
However, in my experience ALL classes scale massively with the right gear. Noone in pre-raid blues will stand up to a T2 or PvP gear Warrior/Mage/Rogue/SPriest. They’ll die instantly.
Imagine 10 of those in the same BG… farming honor for 10 hours a day.
I don’t play any pservers… just have been watching streams and youtube videos. Seeing as many of those hardcore pserver players as well as the hardcore retail and past vanilla players will likely come together to play Classic, I don’t think I’m understating anything.
Lastly, are you forgetting that getting to 60 on Vanilla is hardcore unto itself? We’re talking about late game here and the monopolization of Battlegrounds.
On Pservers u have EU / russians / US / Chinese all around the clock doing premades.
Just stop comparing classic with your silly Pservers.
I would like to qualify that for a moment,…
T2 is great, yes I agree here… But a bulk of it’s stats just like T1 are tied up in +resistance stats…
The Blue PVP sets are 100% competitive in PVP vs the T2 armor.
This I can confirm as I have had both.
AQ gear specifically AQ40 gear is where you depart from the Blue PVP set, but IMO the Rank 14 gear is better than AQ for PVP… Class depending…
In some cases AQ / R14 is better than Naxx T3 (not talking about offset stuff), because for example a shadow priest will not use T3 in PVP, nor will a warrior use T3 in PVP because it’s crap unless you want to heal or run flags…
Also with T3 certain stats are missing in the name of “Big DPS” for T3, for example they did the whole attack power thing + stamina, and it makes you look like a big man, but you’re softer than you would be if you had of been wearing AQ / R14 / BWL gear…
There are some serious trade offs…
IMO T3 is great if you want to play a healer, and that’s about it… (again not talking offset stuff, that’s very different)
So you’re right in that better gear sure as heck is nice, not saying that it isn’t, but also pointing out that the statement is not absolute because there are a lot of qualifications that need to be made in order to make that true…
Example being What does a shadow priest wear? AQ > just about everything excluding R14.
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So servers are more populated is your point. I get it.
I think how serious people will be about WoW Classic will rival any of the pservers you’re on about. Seeing as the top streamers and past hardcore players will be on it, and even more, it is a legitimate blizzard game.
So your complaint is that u won’t be able to get r13 withour playing 10h a day. boo hoo
You’re on a completely different page. I expect the elite players to push the bar regardless. My post is about whether it’s better for the game for PvP to revolve around Premades or not.
Good ideas OP. Premade dodging and farming low geared players for honor is a dishonorable, uncompetitive practice and definitely a problem in Vanilla, as it was back then(I remember because I primarily PvP’d), and should be fixed.
I personally think the problem stems from the honor system. If you could reach R14 solo, and your progress wasn’t compared with other players, there would be far less incentive to group up.
What’s more is that premades would still reach R14 faster under this new system, but solo players could still reach it, just more slowly. I agree that this probably wouldn’t eliminate the problem, but it could at least help to alleviate it.
So in addition to that, you would now only be able to be matched with people who que as group against people who que as group. That way if you have a 5 stack on the enemy team, you can only enter a BG once there is another group of 5 players queuing to make it fair, just like it is in other matchmaking-based games.
So yeah, there are definitely solutions to this problem. But the toxic honor system needs to be fixed as well. Currently it is impossible for instance, a person with a dayjob to reach R14, and R14 doesn’t even give that great gear in 1.12.1 of Vanilla.
If you are a “hardcore” player either way, I don’t think you should be trying to gear through PvP. PvP gear should be designed for people who enjoy PvP as an alternative for PvE. For example, compare AV epics to PvE gear. Those reputation rewards are a nice alternative.
Honor system should ideally be more like that, with R14 not being some nigh-unreachable, prestigious rank, but a generic all PvP’rs are expected to reach at some point, as long as they PvP alot, some faster than others.
As a plus side, this would give an actual tangible goal for PvP’rs as well. I mean, let’s face it, a rank that can only be reached by up to 52 people on your server per faction per year is not exactly a feasible goal for 99% players, and can’t be, because it’s limited to just 52 people per year.
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I believe limiting people to parties of 3 or 10 is the answer.
Honor reward at the end could scale proportionate to length of game.
If the average WSG game is ~20 minutes and the premade 10v10 lasts 40, increase win honor by 50-80%.
Why are BGs the only section of this MMO where people discourage grouping?
If you don’t like being stomped in a premade in BGs then join one yourself. I like to play BGs optimizing strategy and not wrangling a bunch of road fighters who ignore objectives.
Removing premades in BC was the first blow to having friends and guild mates leave the game.
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So ![:grey_question:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/grey_question.png?v=6" ":grey_question:")
Everyone always refers negatively to private servers as if us playing on those servers is not what got you classic lol. Also, private servers don’t launch with BGs either.
Well as long as we don’t have cross realm bgs or cross realm bgs that are linked to every server then people should be capable of crushing premades.
Even though addons will definitely cause problems like people being crushed by premades, I mean having an addon to target/focus people for you and your group will probably be the biggest problem.
Premades wasn’t as much of a problem as they were in bc and everything after.
Though in bc you could still defeat premades.
BFA already has something like this and with it plus cross realm its harder to get teammates who want to destroy our enemy. Most of them probably muted chat because of bossy people who call others names in bg chat.
So classic may be a new start, there were plenty of people who would defend in warsong gulch or av, but when reporting system appeared you got reported afk for defending bunkers from rush cappers and kicked out.
Premades vs PUGS was only a big deal when the premade was geared. Ice barbed spear versus Might of Menethil with crusader and 2.5 set, been on the losing end of that one. I can’t see it being a big issue until the servers are more mature and you have the hard line between the haves and and the have-nots.
I would never bother running a BG without my guild pre-made. Losing is such a waste of time. 
I’m hoping that the queue system tries to match premades with other premades.
This statement is the key. When cross realm bgs appeared, the previous natural way that realm pvp’ers found each other was taken away. Prior to cross realm, pre-mades arose organically as contacts and friends were made.
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By choosing to queue solo, you’re choosing to accept the downsides of playing with a PUG in exchange for the convenience solo queue’ing offers you.
If you feel the convenience isn’t worth playing with a weaker team, join a premade or form your own.
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