PvP needs spell batching or the meta is tarnished

[Moonblade-hyjal (Moonblade)]

it was simple class design or redesign, in modern wow’s case. they are two different games at this point and to use that as an example of a limitation that was exploited, is asinine.

I am just saying it was how things were, is all. I don’t feel it was that much of an exploit if you timed your ability to counter another. You can sometimes do that on live.

You can sometimes do that on live.

i see. thats kind of contradictive to what everyone else is saying. according to everyone else, you cant predict it and thus, need that upper hand to do so. and now you are saying that it is about timing aka skill.

lmfao

you all are dense. i am going back to skyrim.

[Knocrogue-crushridge (Knocrogue)]

i see. thats kind of contradictive to what everyone else is saying. according to everyone else, you cant predict it and thus, need that upper hand to do so. and now you are saying that it is about timing aka skill.

lmfao

you all are dense. i am going back to skyrim.

There 100% is skill involved. Just look up Rogues using Vanish to counter CC’s. Death Coil was very popular to counter because it had a missile. So, you had to get used to using Vanish just at the right time while it was flying towards you. Same goes for all things. Even Vanishing a Warrior’s Charge stun. Timing was very key.

Also, speaking of Skyrim, I’ve been playing ESO recently and have been loving it.

E: Oh, and as for live. I’ve only done this a few times(very rare, since I barely even play my Night Elf). But, you can Shadowmeld CC’s on live. Well, you could during Legion.

[Yogurts-lightnings-blade]

as a rogue player, you always opened cheapshot gouge vs a mage. the mage would blink and land gouged more than 50% of the time. without spell batching rogues cant beat mages without tidal charms

[Melaned-blackrock (Melaned)]

oh, sorry. i didnt realize that spell batching was still a thing.

why are you all asking for it then?

shoo’s them away

I am disappointed. That entire statement you made alone goes against Classic ENTIRELY.

[Melaned-blackrock (Melaned)]

They were working on the back end architecture from day one to lessen the impact of batching and ultimately got to the point where they didn’t need it at all.

Thank you Ziryus.
I want to state however that based upon your wording it sounds more like a technical limitation than a flaw.

[Melaned-blackrock (Melaned)]

It was… by design.
"I don’t want to get too deep into the under-the-hood workings of WoW servers, but here’s a super short version. Any action that one unit takes on another different unit used to be processed in batches every 400ms. Some very attentive people may have noticed that healing yourself would give you the health instantly (minus client/server latency), whereas healing another unit would incur a delay of between 0ms and 400ms (again, on top of client/server latency). Same with damaging, applying auras, interrupting, knocking back, etc.

That delay can feel bad just due to the somewhat laggy responsiveness feeling, but also because the state of things can change during that time. For example: Holly the Holy Priest is healing Punky the Brewmaster. Punky spikes low, and Holly hits Guardian Spirit in a panic. The server verifies that Holly is able to cast it, and that Punky is alive (great!). The cast goes off, Guardian Spirit goes on cooldown, and a request is placed for the Guardian Spirit aura (that prevents dying) to be placed on Punky. That request will be filled next time the 400ms timer loops, which happens to be 320ms from now. 250ms later, the boss lands another hit on on Punky. Punky dies. Sadface. Another 70ms goes by, and the Guardian Spirit aura request pops up, and goes “Hey guys, I’m here!.. Aww… damn, I missed the party. Sadface.”

We no longer batch them up like that. We just do it as fast as we can, which usually amounts to between 1ms and 10ms later. It took a considerable amount of work to get it working that way, but we’re very pleased with the results so far; the game feels noticeably more responsive." - By [Celestalon] [on 2014/06/18 at 2:30 AM] (Patch 5.4.7)
Not a flaw.
Also by technicality, batching still exists but it was shortened to such a degree that it is ridiculous.

As such, being a piece of design during the Vanilla warcraft era it was default part of Vanilla. Not a bug, not a flaw, not something to be fixed. It was not an issue to be exploited and not a cheat to be abused. You compare using two classes but that very design allowed fights to work in that manner. Changing it alters the balance of the game.

To alter the balance of the game is to go against what Blizzard staff have directly stated.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Also by technicality, batching still exists but it was shortened to such a degree that it is ridiculous.

As such, being a piece of design during the Vanilla warcraft era it was default part of Vanilla. Not a bug, not a flaw, not something to be fixed. It was not an issue to be exploited and not a cheat to be abused. You compare using two classes but that very design allowed fights to work in that manner. Changing it alters the balance of the game.

To alter the balance of the game is to go against what Blizzard staff have directly stated.

Sounds like they consider it an improvement just like server stability is an improvement not a design change.

[Melaned-blackrock (Melaned)]

Sounds like they consider it an improvement just like server stability is an improvement not a design change.

See that argument I can understand Ziryus.
That being said, such an improvement does effect balancing. Which based on their statements goes directly against what they have stated they wished to do.

[Velossena-wyrmrest-accord (Velossena)]

You know what else was an improvement based on a limitation that they are reverting even thought the limitation no longer exists? The debuff limit. Why restore 1 thing based on a limitation and not another?

[Doomgard-illidan (Doomgard)]

Tbh, they should just do better so meta isn’t even a thing. Let people play what they want and be successful. Everyone with strengths/weaknesses.

It’s so tiresome seeing only certain classes be permissible every few months.

This philosophy fundamentally is not Classic.

Classic was the time with the greatest disparity of haves vs have nots because classes and specs were designed and balanced to be worse at certain roles they in theory could perform.

apart of the reason for rogues and warriors doing more dmg in classic was they never used “downgraded” versions of there abilities especially in PvP.

Rank 1 Seal of Command (because Shaman purge and general ooms)
Rank 1 Frostbolt (faster cast time and cost less man to avoid ooms)

[Dragonaut-warsong (Dragonaut)]

Can we get a blue post here please? I’m pretty sure Blizzard hasn’t even confirmed or denied that spell batching will exist in classic. It’s good that we are discussing this, but we need to know where Blizzard stands on this…

Aside from the fact that spell batching didn’t exist in the demo.

[Delirium-haomarush (Delirium)]

Agreed. Not enough blue posts on the important gameplay issues.

[Vøøðøø-blackrock (Vøøðøø)]

I third that motion. Spell batching definitely did make some really cool situations.

[Bangnfire-kiljaeden (Bangnfire)]

Duel person of same faction, spam cc ability on each other as timer goes off or get distance and spam instant cc as you get within range of each other. If they both go off there is spell batching.

You do not understand spell batching nor have ever been in a highly reactive PvP situation to experience it apparently, why do you continue?

Because that’s not a consistent way to get the effect to happen. You could argue that after a few hundred tries it wasn’t happening but you’d never be able to prove it

Except you would be able to tell that it is working, or not by the fact that CC being spammed at the same time should go off assuming similar latency.
Another way is using front stabbing on a lvl 4 rogue, if you can get it to go off then there is batching as it’s using the delay in the server allowing back stab to go off.
Another way is blink; you should be able to use blink against a warriors charge before the stun goes off stunning you in another place.
I can still go on tbh but the rogue one wold be a simple indicator of whether they implemented it or not.

[Fallanaa-area-52 (Fallanaa)]

I never really PvP’d, so I can’t comment about batching from personal experience.

However, if PvP players like it, it can’t be a good thing and should not be replicated.

[Ethugd-nagrand (Ethugd)]

Do you not want PvP players to play the game? Or do you just think they don’t know what they want after playing it for 10+ years continuously?

[Fallanaa-area-52 (Fallanaa)]

Do you not want PvP players to play the game? Or do you just think they don’t know what they want after playing it for 10+ years continuously?

I just don’t think they’re anything but selfish and bullies, as they get their kicks ganking helpless players. So, I just simply don’t want them to be happy. If that means they don’t play, so much the better. After all, PvP players calling those that don’t PvP “carebears” and the like means their great people, right?

[Xjum-skullcrusher-13560 (Xjum)]

I just don’t think they’re anything but selfish and bullies, as they get their kicks ganking helpless players. So, I just simply don’t want them to be happy. If that means they don’t play, so much the better. After all, PvP players calling those that don’t PvP “carebears” and the like means their great people, right?

Come on bro, WoW just isn’t the same without PvP and ganking. I mean heck, you can always play on a Normal server.

[Fateweaver-misha (Fateweaver)]

I just don’t think they’re anything but selfish and bullies, as they get their kicks ganking helpless players.

Show me on the map where the mean rogue ganked you…

[Fallanaa-area-52 (Fallanaa)]

Thank you for proving my point.

Your assistance is appreciated.