yup you hit the nail on the head, also you can thank whoever added the item/ability for them to be immune to cc and kicks after you land one LOL or is it if you miss a kick you cant cc for 4secs after. really dumb gameplay so babyish i see why most people play LOL and other games now, sad to see a great pvp game die.
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This season in a nutshell. 30s into the match and my pet is already dead. Burned exhilaration to keep it alive and it was instantly nuked back down. No one casting anything.
Boomkin go Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Ele go Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
This problem stems from the amount of mini CCâs in the game that are used as another form of interrupt, until that is addressed precog is a bandaid solution. In a world where precog doesnt exist right now, If i juke a kick then i eat 3 mini stuns while casting into having to juke more kicks, then how am i rewarded for juking at all? Mean while the reward in that scenario for missing a kick is that you can still use multiple forms of hard cc to stop the cast.
Im not saying precog is the best solution only that there are too many CCâs in the game atm that are used as interrupts, couple that with full duration lockouts 4-6 seconds, and the caster will never actually be able to cast. Meanwhile there are casters in the game that actually do not need to cast to do a ton of damage.
Another issue is that Spell Pushback still exists in the game, where getting hit by melee pushes cast times further back, this mechanics is extremely outdated and should no longer exist, melee do not have an equivalent mechanic to deal with. This mechanic also only punishes casters that have to hard cast and does nothing to the ones who spam instant damage all game.
idk pvp is honestly, for me personally, at the point where it needs to completely crash and be reworked at a fundamental level somehow
i donât find it fun anymore, i even see stuff i want that i could realistically get, but idk if itâs worth the mental toll that it takes
feels like every class/spec has some sort of stupid gotcha gimmick thatâs frustrating to navigate
maybe itâs the fact i was ignorant of a lot of it in the past, but idk if thatâs the case tbh
doesnât feel like itâs fun at itâs core anymore
To much power baked into cds for both healers and dps and its turned the game into an arms race for pvp.
It would be better if we puned and nerfed a lot of the CDs and gave that damage back to normal abilties. It would result in more consistent damage and healing eith smaller spikes. Then the rollar coaster health bars currently and overall more healthly gameplay for pve and pvp.
But they wont do that because pvers love hitting cds for big numbers and buttons that light up while they drool on themsleves eyes glazed over
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Game will never be good as long as healers are a requirement for PvP. Point blank period. The sooner people start to advocate for this, the sooner the game gets better. Sucks for the healing playerbase but it is what it is.
Healers are what give arena depth. If you donât want to dealer with healers, just do bgs. DPS specs already have too many healing abilities and healers have too many dps abilities. Removing healers would just make arena even more of a zug fest. =/
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In the context of removing healers â into calling it a day sure.
In the context of removing healers â rebalancing PvP around a world without them, I actually think it would add depth.
Just immediately, in a 3v3 losing one member doesnt equate to an immediate loss like traditional 3s, 95% of the time. Hybrids offhealing is allowed to be strong because their resources are more easily balanceable and much more finite than dedicated healing specs. You can also rebalance defensive cooldowns, making them less abundant but also more potent/available (like touch of karma) which can directly prevent a zug fest.
Just as a note, healers are much more unbound and much harder to deal with in BGs without dampening compared to arena. I dont think people are ready or understand the impact BGB is about to showcase in this regard.
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personally the most fun healing i had in any pvp game was bloodrite champions/battlerite.
Healers did decent damage CC etc but the catch was you would only heal a certain percentage of life back after taking damage. So the longer the match went on the lower everyone got perminately.
Doubt wow could ever do that but it was certainly interesting and made the games extremely intense
There is a lot to say on this, but Iâll keep it short.
Beyond the fact you would need to completely overhaul damage, lots of dps specs have nothing in the way of healing and would need massive compensation. To that, adding even MORE abilities to dps would be serious overkill.
Right now, dps are also tied to healers which makes positioning extremely important. 3 dps arenât going to get penalized in the same way. We already saw what 3 on 3 melee games look like when fistweaver was pumping. It was awful and boring to watch.
Did you ever see this?
That was in an actual tournament. Was an actual joke.
Lastly, a huge portion of the player population PLAYS HEALERS. Participation wonât increase if you remove all the healing specs. PvE is what drives PvP. As long as healers are in PvE, theyâll be in PvP.
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If you give ms to all classes it loses itâs purpose. Itâs just starting with % dampening at that point. It needs to be a tool that brings individual specs (or classes) class into competitive play or it shouldnât exist.
One of the larger flaws of nerfing MS & toolkit bloat is how absurd stuff like Poison Knife has existed since ? legion? spammable ranged shiv for lethal, and itâs a non-issue because MS is just ignored. Actually one of my favourite things watching TBC / and now replaying wrath is how people play around MS / Wound poison. If i disarm warrior as MS is falling my priest goes from 100% dead to nearly certainly alive. MS is a fun mechanic when itâs designed in a way where it can be played around. Itâs a super satisfying feeling to, for example, get that solid pillar between you and the warrior, hamstring is off & you get to cast an unmitigated heal. Itâs like a breath of fresh air actually seeing your health move. I love that.
I think thereâs a lot of things in this game that only get appreciated after itâs been changed permanently. Like CC durations. Like lockout durations. Like not having Dracthyr in our lobbies. Being able to purge combustion. Being able to cold snap veins. etc⌠But also, having non-modified damage and some classes relying on MS just to have pressure.
Uh, literally every dps spec has some form of healing? Im being so fr this isnt 2009 every DPS spec has some form of healing sustain at this very moment. You can just tune and tweak existing numbers on existing abilities so why do you need to add anything?
The game wasnt balanced around this. This was not an intentional way to play by design. Just like healerless M+ isnt intentional by design but still crops up occasionally due to tuning. Triple DPS was not intended during cataclysm era days either, but appeared because of tuning allowed them to end games fast enough. Nor the days of triple BM hunter in MoP, or very early WoD where you could play triple DK.
Design=/=Tuning
You seem to underestimate how many players have quit or dont PvP solely due to the que times of RSS, which is in direct correlation to the healer population.
Tanks also exist in PvE but are (rightfully) not intended to be competitive in PvP. Anytime they are, they are promptly nerfed back to be soft useless, healers need the same treatment. Its a niche subsection of players that isnt even popular in PvE to begin with either.
Today on my SP, I used a 150% speed boost to run away from a fight with a Demon Hunter. He had no problem catching me before the position ran out.
Thatâs how ridiculous melee mobility is at this point.
My hunter has basically one heal with exhilaration. Mending Bandages is useless for healing and our Mend Pet is, well⌠for our pet.
Some healing that we (every dps spec) have now isnât actual healing. Itâs absorbs. Without outside heals youâre not gaining health. Some specs excel at mitigating damage and other excels at avoiding it. To that, some dps excel at spreading damage and are built to be tough for healers to heal through while not having a lot of burst. As in, they are specs built for the long game.
Cata was dominated by RLS. There were no triple dps comps doing anything wortwhile.
BM in MoP was nerfed hard. While it started busted, it was leveled out before the end of teh first season.
Not really. I have played with a ton of people over the years and still have a pretty big friends list. No one has ever said they didnât like PvP with healers. I mean, because that is what PvP is.
Itâs like the people that argue for no pillars in arena while not realizing the. pillars and los are what make arena. Healers are the same. Removing them is removing the skill in arena. Like, really boil down what you donât like about healers and I guarantee you that is a building block of what arena is as compared to PvE. Being able to cc a healer or kick them or out dps their healing is the job of the dps. That is what gives arena depth. Remove that and you have a bunch meter watching PvEâers.
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Thats still healing. You can tune exhilaration to have a higher heal percentage or be more readily available or give it a heal overtime baseline (rejuv wind talent). For BM you can also tune the currently worthless spirit beast heal. For survival you can currently tune the worthless mastery heal.
I dont care about perceived usefulness in a current meta context, these are just objectional facts that they exist in your toolkit at this very moment that can be tweaked without even adding anything to your (or another) class. Which was a direct response to
Absorbs is a form of mitigation which every class has. Absorbs do not exist in isolation to other forms of mitigation. Warlock absorbs also exist along side their various ways to reduce damage. Same with warriors, same with X or Y. They also exist alongside their forms of healing.
Youâre not describing a design problem with what im proposing, which would require fundamental changes to how things work in relation to other classes to be fair. Youâre describing a tuning issue. Would some things need a redesigned? Maybe, probally. But overall no they dont they would just need to be tuned.
Ret/Rogue/X (hunter/dk usually) was very popular in cata? XLS was the most popular but triple DPS was 100% a common thing??? Nah your memory is shot if you dont think triple DPS was prominent enough to be notable in cata.
And triple fistweaving melee was nerfed so why even bring it up? Everything thats obviously against the design goals are promptly adjusted.
Ask every single person on your friends list if they enjoy RSS que times. If they say no, then they dont like healers, they dont have to say it directly because like you they havent pieced it together yet for some reason. The queue times are directly proportional to the healer playerbase and as long as healers remain a requirement the queue times will never ever improvement. If you want faster queues, you need to remove healers full stop.
(Also you must not be aware im on your friends list currently so thats hyperbole in itself.)
You clearly are not reading a word I have said lol. Iâve very succinctly outlined why I do not like healers in PvP, and have done so many times in other threads.
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They bottleneck content (3v3 LFG, RSS, M+, Pug Raids, etc) due to being a requirement yet are wildly, disproportionally unpopular. Always have been, always will be. Its the same in every other game aswell in the history of games its not a wow or dragonflight issue its a DESIGN one.
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They demand the game be balanced around their existence even if thats not what players find fun. Whenever tanks need less healing in PvE because they can self heal enough, they nerf that because healers dont have a reason to exist and PvE teams start running without them in both raids and M+ and occasionally, PvP.
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They also dictate the pacing of PvP and every contrived method of controlling that is in direct relation to healer power. Its why mortal strike is no longer a commodity and is just common. Its why dampening needs to start right out the gates. Its why CC is nerfed across the board.
90% of every anti-fun design change at its root is caused by healers being required and expected to do content.
I dont think healers need to be pruned from PvE because its much easier to design for their inclusion by making them psudo DPS which is what they are already doing overtime at current. But I dont think they are salvagable in PvP. I think it would be FAR FAR more work to make them both fun to play and fair to play against for the general masses rather than just soft prune them to be useless like tanks.
Also, you seem to have this farfetched idealist dream that healers add a ton of value to the strategic depth of PvP that would be invaluable to remove. Most, and I mean this literally, MOST PvPers do not play like 2500+ exp arena master ex gladiators. Your average healer is just pressing things off CD, and each healing spec has been homogenized and dumbed down to the lowest denominator its ever been in the history of healers for the sake of accessibility.
The vast majority of players are either BG junkies or que RSS out of convenience and just want to play the game in a reasonable time frame with reasonable progression, both of which are currently throttled by the healer playerpool.
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What kind of monkey brain logic is this?
Youâre an unironic bear tank enjoyer, dont think you have room to snip a small quote for attention there.
Yeah⌠I played Druid Tank for RBGs in the past - and I enjoyed it. What does that have to do w your monkey brain logic above?
It explains why you dont comprehend causation and why you just try to insert yourself into conversations beyond your paygrade.
Sorry, not going to waste my time having a light hearted discussion if this is how you want to approach it. 