It’s not stupid. The best PvE gear comes from PvE. The best PvP gear comes from PvP. Players can just do the content that they enjoy.
I think Ion actually pointed this out a long time ago but you have to take participation numbers with a grain of salt, because Blizzard can make an in-game activity seem really popular (even if it’s really bad and everyone hates it) with gear rewards.
Do PvP players have a similar problem participating in PvE?
If someone truly wants to cross over to the other side and do PvE or PvP, at worst, they might have a small gear handicap at first, but then they’ll assemble a second set of gear and the handicap goes away.
I don’t think that’s the goal.
Not everyone enjoys PvP. We shouldn’t be trying to make PvE players go into PvP.
That probably contributes to the boosting problem because these PvE players don’t want to be in PvP, so they pay someone to get the whole process over with as quickly as possible.
Yeah, because Blizzard doesn’t consider PvP to be a high priority. They don’t allocate sufficient dev resources to PvP.
Since BFA, Blizzard hasn’t been staying on top of PvP balance. They’re supposedly letting the meta evolve on its own (i.e. do as little work as possible). Broken OP specs stay that way for most of the season/expansion. It’s not a good PvP experience.
The last PvP dev who left Blizzard said he wanted to make more stuff for Shadowlands PvP, but they kept reducing his budget until finally the only thing he could make was one new arena.
I wish fun is the game.
If the player doesn’t want to be in PvP, then they shouldn’t feel forced into PvP.
That’s probably contributing to the boosting problem because these players just want to get PvP over with as quickly as possible.
Yes. Legion PvP was a lot more balanced. You could play your favorite specs. You could also easily push rating on alts because there weren’t big power gaps due to gear.
Do you have numbers?
I participated in Legion PvP. I found it a lot more enjoyable than what we’ve been getting since BFA.
As I said earlier, we should probably take the Shadowlands PvP participation numbers with a grain of salt because Blizzard is using gear rewards to inflate the numbers. It doesn’t mean it’s a better PvP experience.
It is stupid. This is an MMO called WORLD of Warcraft. It’s supposed to have cross play between game styles and blurred lines between those things. PvE and PvP should be just different ways to get gear. That way you have less entry barriers to do different things.
Yeah, the same guy who said that people was having fun in BfA. That statement makes no sense, because everyone want more people doing the 2 most important parts of the game. The game is not gonna die or suffer because pet battles are not played enough.
No, they dont. You can get your PvP gear to PvE and you will be fine. A ilvl 215 PvP or PvE player has no base advantage over the other one based on artificial boosts. The PvE player may know the mechanics of dungeons better, the same way as PvP people know the dynamics of CC in PvP better.
Yeah, the handicap is the point. It should not exist. It just benefits the people who doesnt wanna do PvE at the expenses of all the other people.
Everyone should start the fight in the exact same base system, giving no one advantages based on the type of gear they have. The game should build bridges across game types and not build walls around it.
How is that in a dying part of he game the goal is not encourage participation?? We already had 4 years of dying PvP because the rewards were an absolute waste. Yeah, I was 980 ilvl in Legion and my random rewards from PvP were useless 945 ilvl pieces.
But again you bring a 0.01% of people being boosted argument as a strawman to paint the big picture about how season 1 participation was just boosted people. Even random BG’s are better because better players have a reason to get those 40 conquest.
Of course you need to encourage PvE player to go in PvP because PvP has been on life support for almost half a decade now.
Yeah, balance is important. But it means nothing if nobody is participating. And people is not gonna invest time in PvP if they have an artificial wall before them and the rewards are less interesting. That’s basic human psychology. We are reward-driven creatures.
Of course it is. But rewards are also a very big part of it. People is having fun in S1 because PvP is kinda good balanced (minus some specs) and the rewards are good.
Again: nobody is forced, they are encouraged. They are encouraged because they can patch gaps in their gear with some 213 ilvl pieces if they can manage to get 1600 at least.
Boosting is not a real problem in the big picture.
Sure, but participation was low AF. But there were power gaps because of Artifact levels. Balance is not the problem: participation is.
PvP has been withering for years because there’s nothing good to get out of it. In PvE you get mounts, transmogs, achievements, titles, gear, etc.
In PvP (Legion and BfA) you just get a mount (BfA only) if you play a lot and fill the bar, and some transmog that you could easily buy next month for 20 marks of honor.
That’s why nobody played PvP. Do you know how I know that? Because the exact moment they changed it participation went up like crazy and people were in the vendor all day long.
You know what will happen next season? All those PvE players trying to patch gaps in their set will do a massive “F. U. PvP” because winning matches is a lot more difficult and the gear is not that good to begin with.
Blizzard doing 1 step forwards with season 1 and now going 2 steps back with season 2.
PvP participation has never been this low. Only at the very top is it stable. Now that people have their gear, the ones who never wanted to do PvP have quit, and average players are leaving because of elite gank squads farming bgs.
OP has no idea what he’s talking about. People are not crying about gear progression in pvp. They are legitimately whining that gear from grinding random BGs forever doesn’t even help you survive if you decide to do rated pvp.
Being in full honor gear, fully upgraded you still get erased in 3 seconds if you fight a person geared in conquest gear.
There SHOULD be a power advantage for having conquest gear, but it shouldn’t be so large that honor gear is completely unable to pose any sort of challenge.
It’s really not an all or nothing affair. PVP gearing IS mmo progression and it IS good. However, PVP should still be a balanced playing field. Once you get geared, it should be fair. Getting geared should be your normal MMO grind but it should be rewarding, not unreasonable.
I don’t remember epics having more resilience than honor blues. I am pretty sure epics had more stamina in earlier expansions.
In WoD they had lower level PVP gear with more stamina while higher level epic gladiator PVP gear had more secondary stats.
Right now epic 200+ PVP gear has greater stamina, secondary stats, and primary stats.
Honor gear should have more stamina and the honor grind should be cut in half. And if players start equipping more honor gear because the epics don’t have enough stamina then that means BlizZard needs to make adjustments to how fast they want PVP to be.
My opinion is that PVP gear should have higher stamina for BGs but have stamina scaled down so arena’s don’t turn into dampening matches that last 20+ minutes.
The issue this expansion is the “MMO gear progression” is crazier than it ever has been before. The per-rank-ilevel jump is significantly higher than it ever has been in previous expansions. Previously your gear would increase your overall power, in the course of one season, by like 10% or so. This expansion you literally double / triple your damage with the gear.
This extreme gear difference between ranks creates massive play imbalances, encourages boosting, and discourages ALT character PVP play.
They can keep the progression system, it just needs to be squished on the PVP side like this:
This way unranked conquest gear and max ranked conquest gear is only 8 levels in difference in PVP scenarios. Currently it skyrockets by 7 ilevels per rank, creating a huge 26 ilevel difference.
Ultimately I truly wish they’d go back to the WoD PVP gearing system where Honor and Conq gear was flat (no ranking, no rating requirements). It was the most ALT friendly way to play PVP.
What blizzard is doing is stupid.
Every type of PvP should allow access to all the PvP gear except Weapons for the very high ranked peeps and maybe shoulders for the mid ranked peeps and open the rest of the pieces to everyone.
League of Legends, Dota 2 and Warzone is that way ----->
I heard Warzone just came out with Season 3. You have to grind up the weapons level but everything else is equalized and you don’t have to do anything.
If you participated in Rated PVP, you would know this to be false. PVP participation is at its highest in a very long time.
Nope, this is a misconception. Less than 1% of the players uses a boost system. Most is self play.
Yeah it is, but you wouldn’t know because you don’t participate and even if you did you aren’t good enough so. You won’t ever know.
I only did arenas and RBGs to hit the ratings I wanted and then stopped doing them because there really wasn’t any other point to it. I got all my other conquest by just doing the weekly quests and BG dailies.
