Why to let the game die? It’s to late to turn it into an successful eSports game.
It rewards mythic raid reward, it had to be more in line to how difficult it is doing mythic raid, and if you think it was +15, you’re out of your mind.
So that’s why DF s1 had more M+ runs by week 7 than SL at the same point?
DF was ahead on every week besides the awful bursting grievous week
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You’re talking about different things. M+ players were asking for rewards closer to end of raid, and that’s what they got with the increase from 15 to 20.
Alternatively, players also asked for raid and M+ to be playable completely separate of one another so they play only the content they want to (what you’re asking about), and they’re taking good steps towards that. There’s still gaps there but it’s closer than people think and I believe it will continue to close. It won’t happen all in one move.
Population isn’t a good metric for viability especially when we talk about tanks/healers which are known to class swap frequently. Look at tanks from the past 3 seasons now. BDK has been absent all expansion in M+ despite being #1 at end of SL BY FAR and we have the stats for Warrior and Paladin almost completely swapping between s1 and s2 just in DF. Are you going to try to argue that all the BDK and Warriors have unsubbed and Paladin mains happened to start playing 3 months ago? No, people just swap to the PERCEIVED best classes.
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Disc is better in an organized environment where damage is planned and you “never” have to play catch up. Holy is by far the better PUG healer in any key range that has rewards (aka 20 and below) because people WILL make mistakes and Holy has a better toolkit for it. Also, those key levels don’t have a strict enough timer where the lack of dps from a healer is ever going to matter.
Source: trust me bro.
This season is probably one of the easiest after all the week 1 nerfs. I pretty much abandoned my Evoker early into S1, got the catch up gear, and am currently like 2400 as Devestation which I never played prior to 3 weeks ago and I have been trying to maintain like 4 characters so haven’t even really been pushing.
None of the timers matter in these dungeons and throughput requirements are actually pretty low when you can still clear dungeons with a dps doing 60k overall.
Awesome, thank you for the detailed response! That’s been my take on holy vs disc, but I haven’t seen higher keys for a while, so wasn’t sure if there was some glaring issue that pops up.
To play devil’s advocate here, that is a “problem” for ALL of PvE. The fact a NORMAL mode piece of gear can go to 437 is insane.
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Generally what happens as M+ moves along through the expansion.
Each new season is only about 30% increase from the previous but gear gives well more than 30%
Insanely awesome honestly, gear should never be a sticking point over the actual ability to clear.
If you can get the gear but still can’t clear, it’s beyond you to do it.
You do have to get Wyrms crests to get to 437 though, so it’s not like you can 437 without doing heroic level content.
I think it is further exacerbated this time around because of how lenient timers are. I did a 15 NL last night where we full wiped on the first boss (Incorporeal spawned underwater so no one saw it and we got 3 stacked) and partial wiped on trash before 2nd (tank pulled both Breakers) and we still timed with like 4 minutes to spare despite having 2 relatively long runbacks.
It’s not even like we were overgeared and blasting. The average dps across the 3 was probably 60k.
Now yes, 15 isn’t high, but the same scenario tends to hold in the upper teens where players have generally better throughput. If this happened last season in AV before people started the skip route that key was probably just bricked because of how strict the timer is.
I try to go by a standard of 1 full wipe shouldn’t kill a key, which is honestly why I hated AV lol
At least not below a 20, after that you should have to play much more perfectly. 21+ you’re playing for clout and to show your skill at the dungeon, mistakes should be heavily punished
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And I agree, but we are getting real close to after that 3rd wipe to Naraxus you MIGHT still be able to time.
I think the timer shouldn’t be the deciding factor and it usually isn’t, but it feels incredibly fake this season to the point I question why it is there. Most keys are lost due to disband due to simply not being able to kill the boss (Naraxus/Altarius/Asaad/etc.) over actually missing the timer. At least anecdotally to me.
Like you can get to Asaad with 7 minutes left, wipe twice, and then just call it because star damage just isn’t there. It had nothing to do with the timer and moreso wasting actual time slamming into a wall.
Ah this high school chart again. Nice. Without any detailed analysis about how many keys on a certain level or what the average time was to clear the key.
Also even the reporter stopped to keep track of the weeks. Might have already quit as well.
Dragonflight Season 1 ended with 36,215,527 keys completed. That’s significantly higher than any Shadowlands season.
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Doesn’t really matter how many keys are on a certain level.
More people were doing M+ in Season 1 DF than Season 1 SL, pure and simple.
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but that’s just like 300 hardcore m+ runners doing them 24/7 on their 800 alts to pump up numbers for REASONS
copium intensifies
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Well, that start got another 10% nerf so hope that happens less.
I run with a group so we generally don’t run into problems like that.
Take a look at the the average completion time. SL was easier then DF with more runs completed using the full timer.
I know that’s /s but i wouldn’t be surprised if someone used that.
As if those 300 hardcore M+ runners weren’t there in SL too lol.
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