Purge Squads... really? *8.1 Spoilers*

10/23/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Ralanthel
They all cross a point where the rest of the party goes "Yeeeaah...we aren't with that guy."


See, this is where Thrall, Baine, Lorthre'mar and a resurrected Vol'jin kick Sylvanus to the afterlife.

Where is Thrall? Did we leave him on that island in Legion? Or, God forbid, AU-Draenor?
See what happens is this where the whole world goes nuts and there a third faction and were all split up between death, light and void and the horde and alliance is done away with. And that is the whole story including new expansion.
10/23/2018 06:03 PMPosted by Shaie

Enslaved is not the same as allied. DID were enslaved by Rags after accidentally summoning him back onto Azeroth.


Did you play the DID intro scenario? They weren't all enslaved.


We welcomed aid from Alleria, although we did know that we were bringing "void-touched" elves into the fold. Did you not play any of the RTS games or The Burning Crusade? Alleria & Turalyon are important Alliance figures, so if Alleria says these are good folks to help us out, then they are good folks to help us out. (I never played the RTS & I know how important Alleria & Turalyon are.)


Uh oh, someone missed the "Alleria and Turalyon weren't Alliance in Legion!" talking point that supposedly keeps Legion from being an Alliance xpac.

And yeah, I played and I know who they are. I suppose that means the Alliance should be 100% fine with the Forsaken, right? Even though Sylvanas has definitely changed into a new type of being now that she got corrupted by the Lich King's power, and even though the Forsaken were also corrupted and raised... hey, that was the Ranger-General and the Lorderaneans! Right?

So if Sylvanas (the Ranger-General remember, because being changed means nothing) says the Forsaken are good people, then we should believe they are, right?

Same exact thing. It doesn't take a genius to see that Alleria is dabbling in some seriously dark stuff and her friends aren't playing with a full deck.


Imprisoned a ZANDALARI princess - did you not play MoP? Zandalari got retconned into bad guys. Where exactly does it say "condemned to death"? I don't recall that in either Sylvanas' dialogue (IF you ask her prior to doing the scenario), Talanji's dialogue or any other dialogue during or after that scenario.


I believe that Jaina mentions it in the Alliance scenario, that Zul and Talanjii are slated to be executed.


BOTH sides have warlocks, who dabble in Fel. BOTH sides have Shadow Priests, who are not only void-touched but THEY WILL GIVE IN TO THE VOID to empower their spells. The point of the Void Elves is that they keep their connection to the Void under control at all times. BOTH sides ALSO have Demon Hunters, who are not only empowered by Fel, but hold at least one demon's essence within their being.


Irrelevant, since I'm not saying the Horde isn't dirty. I'm saying: so is the Alliance. They have no moral high ground.


As Alliance, I do not think that everything I am asked to do/witness is unquestionably "good". I DO think though, that everything I am asked to do/witness is unquestionably REACTIVE. We are not proactive, but only ever reactive to whatever the Horde does. That said though, sending us out to randomly mass-murder neutral races is NOT how we should be made "proactive". About the ONLY thing I can think of as a "validation" for this is, "They've complained so much about the Horde attack on the neutral Kul'Tiran town, this will make everything equal." Except... It won't.


An attack which the Horde players would literally never know about except that the Alliance players told us. Just like this is going to happen on our islands and Alliance players won't even be involved. Blizzard can't even keep the story equal between both sides. As I understand it, the Alliance players never got to see Blood Elves fed to sharks during the Purge of Dalaran either, or Jaina poisoning the Dragonhawks so they couldn't escape.
10/23/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Pharsalus
10/23/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Ralanthel
They all cross a point where the rest of the party goes "Yeeeaah...we aren't with that guy."


See, this is where Thrall, Baine, Lorthre'mar and a resurrected Vol'jin kick Sylvanus to the afterlife.

Where is Thrall? Did we leave him on that island in Legion? Or, God forbid, AU-Draenor?


He's been crying on that island since Legion and no one has seen him.

He was supposed to be the one carrying Vol'jin's ashes around, but for some reason he was written out.

I think they want to just make double-sure none of us think that maybe we'll get Thrall back as warchief so they're just going to hide him.

TBH, the Mag'har recruitment scenario made me think they're angling Geya'rah to be the next warchief. If we can't have Talanjii or Vol'jin, I'll take that.
10/23/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Pharsalus
10/23/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Ralanthel
They all cross a point where the rest of the party goes "Yeeeaah...we aren't with that guy."


See, this is where Thrall, Baine, Lorthre'mar and a resurrected Vol'jin kick Sylvanus to the afterlife.

Where is Thrall? Did we leave him on that island in Legion? Or, God forbid, AU-Draenor?


Thrall has Voljins ashes and is around.

Voljin learns it wasnt the spirits telling him to choose sylvanas.
10/23/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Ralanthel
The Zandalari we all fought in MoP?


That was Zul. Rastakhan got tired of his crap after Zandalar survived his Cataclysm prophecy, so he sent him off with a detachment of the Golden Fleet. Zul, as we all now know, is a bad guy. He did bad guy things. He wanted to rebirth the Zandalari Empire and Rasta was basically in the mood of "Go do whatever you want, just do it away from me."

Garrosh for the Horde.
Garithos for the Alliance.
Zul for the Zandalari.

They all cross a point where the rest of the party goes "Yeeeaah...we aren't with that guy."


Thing is, Garithos isn't of the alliance. He came into power not based on merit but because his daddy was important, and by the time he did literally everyone else more important than him was dead.

Furthermore, Garithos lead the remnants of Lordaeron. At this point there was no communication with Stormwind or the remainder of the Alliance.

Plus, you know, Garithos is an anomaly from WC3, and Blizzard did the baffling thing of completely vetting his bigotry by having it turn out that he was completely vindicated in being suspicious of Kael'thas when Kael'thas would go on to murder Draenei, abduct a Naaru and attempt to use the Blood Elves holy toilet to summon Kil'jaeden to Azeroth.
I too enjoy judging something without knowing any of the context of it. Yay alliance whining.
10/23/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Eleroleron
I too enjoy judging something without knowing any of the context of it. Yay alliance whining.


Trust me. It's bad.
10/23/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Eleroleron
I too enjoy judging something without knowing any of the context of it. Yay alliance whining.


Yes, because story so far is anything to write home about. I'll take a stab you didn't read a damn thing anyone said and just felt like coming in here and doing your own bit of whining.
10/23/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Stinkmeener
10/23/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Pharsalus
...

See, this is where Thrall, Baine, Lorthre'mar and a resurrected Vol'jin kick Sylvanus to the afterlife.

Where is Thrall? Did we leave him on that island in Legion? Or, God forbid, AU-Draenor?


Thrall has Voljins ashes and is around.

Voljin learns it wasnt the spirits telling him to choose sylvanas.


Nope, Master Gadrin carries them around now, until you plant them in Atal'dazar
10/23/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Shantarin

Plus, you know, Garithos is an anomaly from WC3, and Blizzard did the baffling thing of completely vetting his bigotry by having it turn out that he was completely vindicated in being suspicious of Kael'thas when Kael'thas would go on to murder Draenei, abduct a Naaru and attempt to use the Blood Elves holy toilet to summon Kil'jaeden to Azeroth.


Yeah, they did the same thing with Daelin. After making him clearly the bad guy, in BfA they make it explicit that he was right and that killing him was an evil thing to do. Like okay, you distinctly made him the bad guy but now racism and genocide is fine because of an attack on a military base 3 expacs ago.
This what you get when you hire golden.

To cap the bad writing for legion. "What bad writing," you might ask? Some highlights:

-retconning the mass murderer, slaver, and person who would definitely get fired for multiple sexual harassment complaints at the workplace- illidan into "having 'reasons'" for mass murder and slavery to be ok (but largely ignoring the stalker-ish stuff with Tyrande...except for that last video voicemail he has you drop off to her trying to justify everything).

-the void lords

-giving us creeper sargeras (really, read all the stuff between him and Azeroth, keeping in mind that regardless of all the "old soul" crap, that our planet is an unborn child).

All the crappy retcon nonsense the writing team gave us in legion was on top of the stuff they gave us in wod.

The time travel, yet not really time travelling alternate universe where everything we do matters and doesn't matter...all at the same time.
10/23/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Eleroleron
I too enjoy judging something without knowing any of the context of it. Yay alliance whining.
It's one world quest in one incursion. There is no context.
10/23/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Dîomedes
Yea except that hasnt been portrayed since Warcraft 3.


And even then it was hamfisted and contrived.

Because when you step back and look at the situation objectively, anyone with a dose of common sense would say:

Camps that were designed as the alternative to wiping out all the demon blood infused warriors who are still intent on killing everyone with the hopes that they will mellow out and eventually be rehabilitated...would probably be a bad idea:

-arm said orcs, even temporarily no matter how "fun" one camp leader thought it would be to watch them fight (which was poor writing, considering that camp leader was a veteran of the wars and knew what armed and angry orcs could do)

-start giving orcs the idea to fight again, when the intent was to help rehabilitate them and get the bloodlust out of their system

-intentionally try and stir up their bloodlust, when the last time it got whipped up, it led to most of the Southern half of Eastern Kingdoms being wiped out, and (as far as they knew) and entire other planet being destroyed.

10/23/2018 12:09 PMPosted by Cognyack
Vulpera are actually highly evolved space aliens who have be following the Titan's from planet to planet scavenging their stuff.


So, at one point, the Alliance rabbit PC will tell the Vulpera PC

DO A BARREL ROLL!

:P

10/23/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Melaroi
Also do a barrel roll!


crap, beat me to it.

10/23/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Pharsalus
Blizzard, like The Walking Dead, needs better military advisors. (And no, I'm not volunteering. They can't afford me)


Honestly, they should fire golden and the writing staff and give you a shot, with their collective salaries as their opening offer. The post this came from was better written that anything I've seen come out of actiblizz HQ for years now.

And considering their last quarterly reports...who they can afford to hire, that's sad. Not knocking you post, just pointing out that if a cogent post from the forums can put their writing staff (which include "famous" writers) to shame, something's off. You expect this level of bad writing from someone's moonguard RP*, not a multibillion dollar company's writing staff.

*no offense to moonguard RPers. I'm sure 99.9% of you could also write a better story than what we currently have...even ones involving furries...and no, I don't want to read them.

10/23/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Starlagosa
Getting your panties in a bunch when we still dont' know the finished questline?


"It's only beta!"

That dead horse was glue some time in wod.

You guys need a new line, and sorry:

"It's always been this bad!"

Is not going to work. Tell the propaganda folk in actiblizz they need better material.

10/23/2018 01:45 PMPosted by Pointyends
No more whining from the Alliance about who's 'evil' finally.


Well, we can take a page from yours and the devs book and call it "morally grey."

/facepalm

10/23/2018 01:58 PMPosted by Pharsalus
10/23/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Rollo
Horde get their Vulpera, Alliance get to not engage in pointless genocide, and Blizzard's writers don't have to pull a surprise villain out of their butts to explain the Alliance losing its damn mind.


Rollo, I'm impressed. Not only does this seem plausible, but you came up with an apparent win-win in less than 10 minutes.

Memo to Blizzard: Get better.


Couldn't they just make them a neutral faction that either side could play?

You know, like the nightborne should have been...a group of individuals who weren't really a cohesive faction at that point, and everyone gets their cake and eats it too?

You know, to tide everyone over until The Alliance finally gets High Elves, and they get ogres.

If all they every did was a couple randos was give their side quests, that hardly qualifies s a ringing endorsement of their faction.

Watch the Cataclysm intro again. Pretty sure them there's Dark Iron Dwarfs hammering metal plates on old Neltharion's face.


You should actually play cata. Those are twilight's hammer cultists. There's also goblins in that cult, along with every other race...playable and not. Except the sub races, because those got pulled out of the twisting nether five seconds ago lorewise.

Oh, by the way, he goes by "Deathwing," and hasn't been Neltharion for quite some time now.

::does the more you know thing::

10/23/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Nazjira
It's the same stuff with the Lightforged in the alternative universe. Yrel and the others only became dangerous and deadly to the poor orcs so they could be victimized.

And the Lightforged back on the main universe? Lightforged are reduced to Innkeepers, Vindicaar did absolutely nothing so far.

Funny how a couple catapults are enough to destroy Teldrassil but the Vindicaar couldn't do crap about it, nor even go to Orgrimmar and apply the same logic to that Orc city. But alas, plot devices are only made to benefit the Horde, not the Alliance.

Also good to mention that those "poor orcs" are the same mass murderers, with the same genocidal leader that tried to wipe us, both Alliance and Horde, the Draenei from AU and even some other orcs there. But sure, they're "victims" of the "fanatical Lightbound!!"

It's so much bad writting on top of bad writting, it's a surprise these people still have jobs.


Someone gets it.

I agree 5 years is too short and that it's not believable. I WISH they put something in the game regarding the distrust the Bronzebeard, Wildhammer and Dark Iron all had towards each other. The attack on the Ironforge airfield was not enough.


You forgot the crappy scenario in MoP where moira and the dark irons got to play hero for no reason right after she was bonkers in cata and the other two clans were right for not wanting to trust her. The current bad writing team started to poison the well even then.

10/23/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Inoro
BFA: 50 shades of morally gray. About the same quality of writing too.


You mean,

"50 shades of messed up?"

:P

Sorry, couldn't resist.

10/23/2018 09:03 PMPosted by Tabaqui
As I understand it, the Alliance players never got to see Blood Elves fed to sharks during the Purge of Dalaran either, or Jaina poisoning the Dragonhawks so they couldn't escape.


"fed to the sharks?!"

/facepalm

Did they have frickin' laser beams?

The devs have debunked the massacre of Dal, but you guys keep repeating it.

Azerite can't melt fox pelt, but it can melt tin foil hats...

10/23/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Tabaqui
Like okay, you distinctly made him the bad guy but now racism and genocide is fine because of an attack on a military base 3 expacs ago.


You know what's worse?

Calling the genocide of the Night Elves "morally grey" now.
10/23/2018 10:45 PMPosted by Wanobi

10/23/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Tabaqui
Like okay, you distinctly made him the bad guy but now racism and genocide is fine because of an attack on a military base 3 expacs ago.


You know what's worse?

Calling the genocide of the Night Elves "morally grey" now.


I agree. This whole thing is ridiculous.

It was absolute BS that we had to participate in that, or that anyone aside from the Forsaken WOULD participate in it. Especially after Legion.

What I'm complaining about is Blizzard setting up direct bad guys from the Alliance side and then rewriting them as "good after all!" years later.
As silly as it may be, I hope it turns out all this exacerbated / amplified emotions and aggression are the direct result of Azerite: like a catalyst as explained in before the storm.

Otherwise it seems out of character.
10/23/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Lilywhite
As silly as it may be, I hope it turns out all this exacerbated / amplified emotions and aggression are the direct result of Azerite: like a catalyst as explained in before the storm.

Otherwise it seems out of character.


Sh!t, I hadn't even considered that. That's pretty good.
"We need to make the Alliance look as bad as Sylvanas."
"Have them try to exterminate the vulpera then."
"But the Alliance hasn't even met them yet."
"PURGE. SQUADS. Make it happen."
Alliance: Whines about being the boring good-guy faction

Blizz: Gives them something "morally grey" (not nearly as bad as the horde)

Alliance: Omg, why are you making us evil?

This is why your population numbers are falling. You won't even allow blizzard to "taint" your moral superiority.
10/23/2018 11:49 PMPosted by Dekala
This is why your population numbers are falling. You won't even allow blizzard to "taint" your moral superiority.

That's not the issue at all. I'm all in favor of having the Alliance do some morally questionable stuff to keep them relevant to the plot. This in particular just proves Blizzard has no idea how to do that with any semblance of consistency.