10/23/2018 02:18 PMPosted by
Reshyk
That's not a good defense when one of the novels in WoW's lore is called War Crimes and we killed a warchief over it.
Yes. Because that's how drama works. Dramatic things happen.
The hero going from good guy to bad guy with no reasonable explanation is not dramatic. There is such a thing as being out of character and that's what Blizz is doing. Sure, it's their story and they can do as they like but they better not take issue with people calling them out on it.
Maybe some context maybe not. Either way, this "Purge" seems to clearly setup for playable Vulpeera at some point.
I hope so. For the Vuldunai ! For the Horde!
Blizz, this is your answer to make the alliance "morally grey"? This is contrived crap. Seriously, your writers need to go. Get them a job at Huff Post or something, bring in real writers.
You guys just allied with the DID, who have been allies of Ragnaros and the Black Dragonflight and been killing people on all factions since before vanilla.
You welcomed in elves who have been infusing themselves and dabbling in the energy of Old Gods, which is the specific enemy of the Light and you're fine with that.
You imprisoned and condemned to death a princess from a culture not at war with you, who was just looking for help, then decided to sack her city and kill her father when we rescued her from you and then decided to provide that help.
Burning puppy-people isn't what makes you morally grey, baby. Y'all already there. It's just the alliance is used to thinking of everything it does as unquestionably "good"
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Looks like the writers realized that to make a war 'morally grey' they can't have one side commit all the war crimes.
They just forgot about the Alliance when they were writing, again. So to make up for lost time they have to throw in something as hamfisted as 'morally grey' 'purge squads'.
I mean, you guys get what they're trying to convey right? Both sides bad sometimes. Blah blah, morally grey, blah blah. There will always be war.
Maybe if they could tell a story better there would be nothing to complain about.
10/23/2018 04:09 PMPosted by
Fafnir
They just forgot about the Alliance when they were writing, again. So to make up for lost time they have to throw in something as hamfisted as 'morally grey' 'purge squads'.
Blizzard went with the White moments and Black moments combined makes Grey belief system! We believe that White moments combined with Black moments makes Black of various shades and not Grey!
Blizzard sees both sides as Grey due to this and yet by our standards by the day is through both sides will be considered Black! We are actually getting Black and Black Morality despite Blizzard's assumptions otherwise!
10/23/2018 11:36 AMPosted by
Farajah
10/23/2018 11:24 AMPosted by
Awby
The only explanation I have for most of BfA's story is that they are going 100% all-in on trying to make the faction war seem as stupid as possible so that they can break down the faction barriers partway through or at the end of the expansion.
If they're actually playing this straight? HAHAHAHAHA
They are playing it straight.
How do I know? Quite simple, really; Blizzard writers have never mastered subtlety- not even the third parties writers have. They can only beat you over the head the obvious and the mediocre.
I thought that before Legion too. Then it turns out that Blizzard wasn't retconning Illidan, but rather Xe'ra actually was completely insane. So I'm willing to give the writers a little maneuvering room. Not a ton, but I'll at least wait and see if they have another turnaround in stock. Because if they're just playing it straight, that's awfully lame.
10/23/2018 03:16 PMPosted by
Tabaqui
Blizz, this is your answer to make the alliance "morally grey"? This is contrived crap. Seriously, your writers need to go. Get them a job at Huff Post or something, bring in real writers.
You guys just allied with the DID, who have been allies of Ragnaros and the Black Dragonflight and been killing people on all factions since before vanilla.
You welcomed in elves who have been infusing themselves and dabbling in the energy of Old Gods, which is the specific enemy of the Light and you're fine with that.
You imprisoned and condemned to death a princess from a culture not at war with you, who was just looking for help, then decided to sack her city and kill her father when we rescued her from you and then decided to provide that help.
Burning puppy-people isn't what makes you morally grey, baby. Y'all already there. It's just the alliance is used to thinking of everything it does as unquestionably "good"
We didn't
JUST ally with the DiD dwarf. They have been with us since Cata. The only people the Dark Iron were really at war with were other dwarves. In fact all 3 were fighting each other. Dark Iron went to summon something and got Ragnaros who promptly enslaved them. Sure it didn't help that Dagran Thaurissan was an !@# but honestly, as I sit here typing this, it plays out not that different than the Nightborne who joined you folks. Sure Dark Iron went on to do many bad things but eventually they were set free and were brought back into the fold. Yea, there was that part where they occupied Ironforge for a bit but that was Moira being a dumbass.
Elves dabbling in the energy of old gods. That's not any worse than what warlocks do, tbh. We both also have Death Knights who, if the DK class hall campaign is to be followed, should
not be trusted, but since it exists in a vacuum I'll let it slide. Still, not sure if the LK is in their head fully or not so best just keep an eye on em.
Haven't played BfA so I don't know the details of that princess but I thought she was in the company of someone who was an actual noted bad guy, so yea. Guilt by association. At least we didn't kill her outright or do some sort of torture.
That being said I have no issue with the Alliance being morally grey over the above or some other thing we may do. Burning puppy-people with no relevant context is not morally grey though and simply strikes me as a writer trying too hard and not succeeding in the least.
10/23/2018 11:24 AMPosted by
Awby
The only explanation I have for most of BfA's story is that they are going 100% all-in on trying to make the faction war seem as stupid as possible so that they can break down the faction barriers partway through or at the end of the expansion.
If they're actually playing this straight? HAHAHAHAHA
Blizzard has gone senile and thinks wow is WH40k.
We didn't JUST ally with the DiD dwarf. They have been with us since Cata.
Watch the Cataclysm intro again. Pretty sure them there's Dark Iron Dwarfs hammering metal plates on old Neltharion's face.
The only people the Dark Iron were really at war with were other dwarves.
Hey cous, I know we were like at war 5 years ago and I totally killed your mom and all that, but it's all good now cuz we be allied up.
Yeah, worked real well after the Civil War, Vietnam, Korea, etc, etc.
Soooo let me get this straight here.
Horde get a Horde only quest line about finding Suarfang, trotting through Alliance territory murdering some 10 year old Si 7 agents, murdering Alliance villagers, finding Saurfang and murdering a Dark Ranger and an assault force of Deathguards all part of progressing Saurfang's rebellion..
And Alliance form purge squads to kill Vulpera in Vol'Dun.
Where's the camera? Someone tell me this is just a prank.
Not only is this writing just horrible, but at this point we can tell they actually just hate the Alliance. Not even hate enough, but can only personify the Alliance as 10 year old children who can't accomplish anything right.
Blizz, this is your answer to make the alliance "morally grey"? This is contrived crap. Seriously, your writers need to go. Get them a job at Huff Post or something, bring in real writers.
It's more of the same trash. The Alliance is only allowed to cause either insignificant damage to the Horde or when devs need the Alliance to look bad for the sake of portraying the Horde as victims. Any other situation is "the Alliance is in no condition of doing it because **plot device**" or "the Alliance is too good to do that!" kinda of excuse.
Whenever it means to give actual victories to the Alliance, what we get? Siege of Undercity and this pathetic 8.1 patch, which spits on Night Elves some more after exterminating them.
Everyone calm down.
It's just morally grey.
That being said I have no issue with the Alliance being morally grey over the above or some other thing we may do. Burning puppy-people with no relevant context is not morally grey though and simply strikes me as a writer trying too hard and not succeeding in the least.
It's the same stuff with the Lightforged in the alternative universe. Yrel and the others only became dangerous and deadly to the poor orcs so they could be victimized.
And the Lightforged back on the main universe? Lightforged are reduced to Innkeepers, Vindicaar did absolutely nothing so far.
Funny how a couple catapults are enough to destroy Teldrassil but the Vindicaar couldn't do crap about it, nor even go to Orgrimmar and apply the same logic to that Orc city. But alas, plot devices are only made to benefit the Horde, not the Alliance.
Also good to mention that those "poor orcs" are the same mass murderers, with the same genocidal leader that tried to wipe us, both Alliance and Horde, the Draenei from AU and even some other orcs there. But sure, they're "victims" of the "fanatical Lightbound!!"
It's so much bad writting on top of bad writting, it's a surprise these people still have jobs.
Maybe Vulpera just keep sneaking into your camp stealing stuff. Captain Knobbs (whose wife just left him for a void elf) gets jack of it and goes on a rampage.
I really hope Alliance start doing more evil stuff.
Can we have some in fighting too?
Sick of all the holding hands and singing kumbaya crap >.<
if the DK class hall campaign is to be followed, should not be trusted, but since it exists in a vacuum I'll let it slide.
bfa crapped on legion content here. DH's...got screwed. No dinner, no kiss, no foreplay, no KY. So it is best to just forget it all happened. Makes the pain go away....
My horde and alliance dh work hard to get a navy for a faction as the story goes.
2 things from legion seem to be forgotten.
1. We are the leader of the demon hunters. Every time 7th commander or sylvanas' boy toy talks down to me...I want to teach them the error of their ways.
The factions need us. We do not need the factions.
2. We don't need this navy. We have a spaceship.
But but we need ships says the faction.
No, no, no. there is no We here. You....need the boats. I have a ride.
We didn't JUST ally with the DiD dwarf. They have been with us since Cata.
Watch the Cataclysm intro again. Pretty sure them there's Dark Iron Dwarfs hammering metal plates on old Neltharion's face.
The only people the Dark Iron were really at war with were other dwarves.
Hey cous, I know we were like at war 5 years ago and I totally killed your mom and all that, but it's all good now cuz we be allied up.
Yeah, worked real well after the Civil War, Vietnam, Korea, etc, etc.
Well, I might be biased because of my love for dwarves. Prefer the old model Dark Iron to the new one.
I agree 5 years is too short and that it's not believable. I
WISH they put something in the game regarding the distrust the Bronzebeard, Wildhammer and Dark Iron all had towards each other. The attack on the Ironforge airfield was not enough.
The thing to take away is enemies do become allies. US and the UK, Germany, Japan, Mexico, etc.. and things eventually go on. Blizz just chose to make it happen sooner than it realistically would have. it's just a matter of if it's beyond one's suspension of disbelief or not. My love of dwarves might be clouding my judgement. :)
10/23/2018 05:27 PMPosted by
Nazjira
It's the same stuff with the Lightforged in the alternative universe. Yrel and the others only became dangerous and deadly to the poor orcs so they could be victimized.
And the Lightforged back on the main universe? Lightforged are reduced to Innkeepers, Vindicaar did absolutely nothing so far.
Funny how a couple catapults are enough to destroy Teldrassil but the Vindicaar couldn't do crap about it, nor even go to Orgrimmar and apply the same logic to that Orc city. But alas, plot devices are only made to benefit the Horde, not the Alliance.
/sigh Don't get me started on Yrel and what happened over on Draenor. What happened in Draenor should have stayed in Draenor. Plenty of Maghar orcs to be found in BC Outlands, tyvm.
With regards to the Vindicaar. Since they put every resource into building it they were caught off guard by a random parking ticket and sadly couldn't pay it. It's currently impounded. They asked Anduin for help but sadly he offered them they same amount of help he gave to the Night Elves.
And those catapults. Turns out the tuning was off and they had unlimited range. Blizz has since corrected this but won't going back to fix the damage that was already done.
if the DK class hall campaign is to be followed, should not be trusted, but since it exists in a vacuum I'll let it slide.
bfa crapped on legion content here. DH's...got screwed. No dinner, no kiss, no foreplay, no KY. So it is best to just forget it all happened. Makes the pain go away....
My horde and alliance dh work hard to get a navy for a faction as the story goes.
2 things from legion seem to be forgotten.
1. We are the leader of the demon hunters. Every time 7th commander or sylvanas' boy toy talks down to me...I want to teach them the error of their ways.
The factions need us. We do not need the factions.
2. We don't need this navy. We have a spaceship.
But but we need ships says the faction.
No, no, no. there is no We here. You....need the boats. I have a ride.
I think that's the biggest travesty going from Legion to BfA. It 100% took our characters out of the equation to a degree I will never be happy with. I've said it before. Don't make me out to be a hero only to tear me down. If the goal was for a faction conflict than they should never have portrayed us any way shape or form as how they did in Legion. We were essentially independent. What faction conflict we had was just there to be there, like always.
Best to exterminate them now before they overpopulate, migrate to the Eastern Kingdoms and learn of Goldshire.
Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.
This is one WQ during the Vol'dun incursion. There is no quest chain. There is no commander. There is no greater context. This is the same patch in which you have Tyrande sparing undead running a death camp and the Alliance forces attacking Dazar'alor stating that they're under orders from Anduin to not kill civilians under any circumstances.
Genn goes up to Rastakhan's throne and asks him to surrender so the bloodshed can stop. Genn, Anduin, and Jaina all agree to not press their advantage after the battle(at which point characters from both sides state that the Alliance could end the Zandalari then and there) because they don't want to be like Sylvanas.
The Purge Squad is dumb and out of character no matter how you frame it, especially when it has draenei(vanilla, not Lightforged) mages doing it alongside warlocks.