Punish M+ Leavers

[Hwanwok-ysera (Hwanwok)]

@Tyreale-ysera

Simple solution

Blizzard shouldn’t police leavers.

I get can be frustrating sometimes, I had a resto shaman rage alt F4’d after one wipe on the 2nd boss of galakrond’s fall on an 11 when the key is still very timable when you have a pretty geared WW and knows how to play his spec in your group, I do wished that resto shaman is penalized don’t get me wrong

But at the same time, there are people who intentionally grief runs, join a key that is too high level for them and not ready for it, do less dps then a tank/Augment evoker, don’t having mechanics explained to them yet still fail to do them, etc and I have no obligation to stay if those things are happening in a run.

@Tyreale-ysera

if you apply for a key stick with it

If the key is going fine, I will stick with it.

If the key didn’t time but the group is fine, I will stick with it.

But if the run is just simply going nowhere, then I wont stick with it, I’m not obligated to spend over an hour in a dungeon run that is not going anywhere.

@Tyreale-ysera

if you think there is a chance you might to leave, dont sign up. SIMPLE.

Here is the problem with this:

Simply saying “dont sign up if you might leave” does not work because simply put, pugging is a wild west, I will never know what I’m going to get till I do the actual dungeon with the group I applied and got accepted to.

@Tyreale-ysera

You do realize other games that evolve around group content have leaver penalties right? it’s not a foreign concept.

Yes I know this and in those games like Dota, its not a foreign concept to me.

But what sets aside the difference between Dota and WoW is this:

Dota has an end point, no matter how hard your team tries to hold you hostage, the enemy team can just push to your ancient and end the game.

Where as in WoW M+, there is no end point to a dungeon where you are in a bad group, you can say completing the dungeon is the end point sure, but that will involve blood sweat and tears, which many of us don’t want to go through if leaver penalties gets implemented. Also Leaver penalties will just kill M+ pugging.

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

@Hwanwok-ysera

Dota has an end point, no matter how hard your team tries to hold you hostage, the enemy team can just push to your ancient and end the game.

Even for DOTA (because it is for League.) There is minimal value in forcing people to play games they don’t want to. You delay the loss by 5-10 mins instead of surrendering. People are better off going next than campaigning to surrender.

[Damarius-hyjal]

@Templeguard-area-52

But you said it yourself, sometimes ppl leave bc they don’t care about anyone else.

The ppl doing 80k in +20s obviously don’t care about their groupmates.

[Froomstbolt-stormrage]

@Fairlight-emerald-dream

I can see that comp making morchie scary with all the add uptime’s, and kiting and that frontal being really painful to control…

Or battlefield, if the axe throwers, or whatever the alliance counterpart is, live forever, that’s death.

[Kaercha-area-52]

There has never been a worse suggestion for this game than leaver penalties for non-queued content.

First of all, people rarely leave groups that are going well. Anyone who would purposely brick your key will be able to do it in any system you put together. Pulling extra mobs, getting “lost”, or just auto-ing while they watch their other screen. If someone wants to ruin your key, nothing that has been suggested would prevent that. If your groups are falling apart enough for this to be a problem, maybe the problem isn’t the pugs.

Second, the entire argument come from the want to punish and control. You can’t dictate what someone else does with their time. You must accept that you are 20% of this group. You’re not the main character. It’s not up to you. The best you can do is make sure everyone agrees with the parameters before you start. People will trip over themselves in their haste to help someone who asks for help. “This is my first time playing this high, might need some pointers”, all you have to say.

But that’s not what you say. You advertise a standard group, with the expectation that you’ll get your loot box and your vault progress no matter what happens, and you have the audacity to get angry about it when someone else leaves you for failing their objective. You had a sign, “oranges for sale”, and got mad when someone didn’t buy your lemons.

A leaver penalty, any leaver penalty, is a waste of time until we also have a penalty for unforced errors bricking keys.

[Basedgodz-aggramar]

@Kaercha-area-52

A leaver penalty, any leaver penalty, is a waste of time until we also have a penalty for unforced errors bricking keys

I think a non super harsh leaver penalty might be chill. Like the one in overwatch. If you leave a comp match, you get a 30 min debuff before you join again. Consective leaves results in longer and longer debuffs. It goes super high quick, smth like 5 min → 30 min → 4h → etc.

I only say this bc having ppl brick ur key sucks.

But there are legitimate reasons at times. Like dc, internet, emergency, toxic ppl etc. Thats why i think a soft debuff would be decent

Ive been on both sides. Needing to brick, internet issues and also having ppl just waste your time for no reason

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

This sounds horrible.

If the debuff is long enough to be worthy of circumvention, you create very undesirable gameplay experiences. Players of League of Legends can attest to that.

having ppl just waste your time for no reason

This is so rare.

[Akston-area-52]

@Basedgodz-aggramar

I only say this bc having ppl brick ur key sucks.

And joining a key then finding out the key holder can’t out DPS the tank also sucks.

[Hwanwok-ysera (Hwanwok)]

In games like Overwatch, HoTS, Dota and League, the leaver penalty is fine for those games because there is an end point to those games and its harder to be held hostage in those games.

Where as in WoW, M+ specifically, if a run is going horribly bad, there is no end point, one could argue that completing the dungeon is the end point but if the run is going horribly bad, it will involve blood sweat and tears to get to it and some of us just dont want to stay for who knows how long it will take and don’t want to be punished for leaving a run that went horribly bad.

While yes, it is frustrating that someone does leave, I had a resto shaman who rage alt f4’d after one wipe of the 2nd boss of an 11 galakrond’s fall when its painfully obvious that its still timable, however cases like mine are rare because not many people leave a run that is going fine and still timable, the only reason people leave is if the run is just horribly bad.

If the people that create leaver penalty threads and request this type of stuff actually take a look on who is the common denominator is then they wouldn’t be requesting these things.

[Resinger-area-52]

@Basedgodz-aggramar

But there are legitimate reasons at times. Like dc, internet, emergency, toxic ppl etc. Thats why i think a soft debuff would be decent

Yeah and having dps that do less damage than a tank or who refuse to interrupt in keys is a totally justified reason for leaving, so unless you want to open up the can of worms that is punishing bad players for being bad this won’t work

@Tyreale-ysera

You do realize other games that evolve around group content have leaver penalties right? it’s not a foreign concept.

All the other games people keep mentioning have hard end states that will force you out of the game at some point or another. M+ does not have that so it’s not a even remotely fair comparison.

[Nettão-stormrage]

Even tho i agree some ppl are just spoiled brats who leave after a minimum thing

You cannot make a system to punish the act of “leaving a key” because people have hundreds of reasons as to why they leave a key

• You have a kid and something happens, it’s a game, leaves the key to see the kid
• Someone on the group was toxic to you, you asked for them to stop, they didnt stop, leaves the key because you’re not obliged to play with toxic people?
• Other real world emergencies and situations
• Your tank and healer is really BAD, like really really bad and you really trying to help them become better, saying tips and etc and they just ignore you and keep making the same mistakes and making the group wipe over and over, you wont time the key, you’re wasting gold repairing, you leave for the sake of your own sanity
• etc

Also, a system that punishes people for leaving can be easily abused, you can get punished for DC or the things i said above already

OR worse

You can join a premade group and they decide to troll you and report you, and you get punished because you were reported by a group of troll friends

When thinking about a new system you always have to consider how players are going to abuse said system.

[Akston-area-52]

@Resinger-area-52

All the other games people keep mentioning have hard end states that will force you out of the game at some point or another. M+ does not have that so it’s not a even remotely fair comparison.

Esp since in most being mentioned…being bad actually speeds up the game. Makes it end sooner.

In WoW/M+, being bad extends the game, making it possibly never end.

[Sultani-laughing-skull]

@Snozo-area-52

Unless one of those people who didn’t leave is the cause of people leaving.

I don’t carry people for free.

Neat assumption. People bail with zero deaths, totally out of the blue.

[Ragemode-amanthul]

I don’t usually leave keys unless the dps do something really bad.

I was doing a 16 DHT and at the last boss thrash, someone died and clicked release when our healer was standing there waiting to rez.

That’s my pet peeve. Players clicking release without asking.

Needless to say. I also released myself from the key.

[Snozo-area-52]

@Sultani-laughing-skull

Neat assumption

Its not really an assumption. People don normally leave good key groups.

@Sultani-laughing-skull

People bail with zero deaths, totally out of the blue.

Doesnt mean people werent making massive mistakes.

If people are constantly leaving your keys what are you doing wrong?

[Basedgodz-aggramar]

Today i had a group lead who was dps, afk after the first boss. We ended up finishing the whole thing but didnt time it (for obvi reasons)

Right after we cleared the boss the mf just walked in looted the chest and left

I was like no way. Couldnt even do nothin about it

Not the same topic but damn that shud be a ban lol

[Maerie-area-52]

There’s need to be a deterred for such bad behavior. When I get accepted into a group I’m there to support that group, regardless of the outcome. Not there to rage quit. Blizzard need to start to lockdown entire account (not allow to queue for mythic) for at least an 1hr. Such players ruined the fun for the rest of the group. Blizzard need to start paying a closer look at this issue.

[Arbors-thrall]

@Maerie-area-52

Not there to rage quit. Blizzard need to start to lockdown entire account (not allow to queue for mythic) for at least an 1hr. Such players ruined the fun for the rest of the group.

So if there are DPS doing less damage than. The tank - can they also get locked out for an hour?

Asking for a friend

[Akston-area-52]

I can’t wait until bad play is a reportable offense

[Maerie-area-52]

@Arbors-thrall

So if there are DPS doing less damage than. The tank - can they also get locked out for an hour?

Asking for a friend

Rather have a player who’s willing to commit even if we don’t make it on time, than to have a player who’s going to quit. Tell that to your friend…