Because covenants arent a permanent 15 year choice like a class is.
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Almost all of your arguments are based on logical fallacies. It’s silly. Stop being silly.
There is only one argument for locked Covenants and that’s having something that other’s can’t have. There is no other argument for it that is valid.
It’s why most of the people who are for locked covenants are the LFR, WPvP heroes who don’t care about their performance in different content because they play WoW mostly as a single player RPG.
This is the one time you get to lord over the 1%, the people who consistently have better gear, unique achievements, mounts and all the stuff those that push Arena, M+, or Mythic raids have that you’ll never get, or attempt to get. Stop being disingenuous about why you want them locked and just admit it’s feels good being the “jerk”, that can now gatekeep in a sense by telling Blizzard their terrible idea is great! Most people for the lock have this dumb idea in their head that the top end players in this game are all jerks, when in reality the most toxic part of the community is on the bottom fringes.
Not every LFR/Casual Hero is against locked Covenants, but everyone against locked Covenants is a LFR/Casual Hero.
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2 buttons don’t make a class. Fire mage plays differently than a rogue does, they have a different style, different classification, everything.
Class is more than an aesthetic choice. I like Mistweaver cause I like being a melee healer, but discipline is the king of raids. Guess what? I don’t want to be a priest.
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Understood. Difference of opinion. I like it from an aesthetics perspective, and see it as a balancing issue. For me, classes are cool and all, but given we’re not getting a new class, this is a reasonable alternative and obtainable by everyone. Personally, I like it, and want them to balance it.
But given they already can’t balance everything for every fight without muddying the distinction of classes, it’s not really a new problem. It’s an extension of an existing problem. And will need to be addressed with overall class balance, IMO.
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I feel like it ends up being more than an extension. More like a compounding problem because of the restrictions.
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Aesthetic was a poor choice of words. It’s both aesthetic and playstyle. Which is exactly the same as the covenant choice. There’s really no difference between class ans covenant choice.
With both, you either choose to min/max the choice, or you choose the one you enjoy the most overall. If you’re trying to compete to be the top end, world first raider, then you have alts upon alts of the best combinations for each fight.
I’d more concerned if it was shown that many classes/specs only have 1 viable choice. Having many viable choices, but one best choice, I’m less concerned. Still falls into overall balance, for me.
For an overwhelming majority of players, you pick what you enjoy and complain about balance on the forums while threatening to unsub, like a decent human being. /s
Why? At any time, you can switch to your max potential covenant. If that’s what is important to you.
But covenants don’t feel like classes. They have a single flashy class ability that goes along with their aesthetics but ignores your class fantasy and a utility ability. Take DKs and their night fae ability for example. Most people who play DKs love the undead aesthetic, but its impossible to say no to a 15% strength buff and damage reduction buff.
I want to play night fae personally. The ability is beautiful. But, from a MW perspective, it does almost no healing at all. That kind of thing just feels bad to me. It’s why I want to see at least the class abilities uncoupled from the covenants themselves.
And as for the difference between class and covenants, it’s pretty clear. Class is one of the only constants in this game. Covenants are only going to matter until the next expansion comes out. So, with that in mind, why should we be limited so harshly when 2 years from now it’s not going to matter if I was a night fae monk or a necrolord monk? 2 years from now, it’s still going to matter that I play a mistweaver monk, but my covenant choice will ultimately mean nothing.
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How do you not get that is the exact reason?
Not really. I mean, grabby hands and a big shield from Necrolords is pretty good utility for a blood dk. But this is still, IMO, something that can be balanced.
Again, something that can be balanced. If say, the healing was tied into your int.
This part I agree with the most. Although I am afraid of throwing out the baby with the bath water. I really like the addition of a “sub-class” system. But I think 4 choices are far too few, and a “null” choice that doesn’t add a “second class” to your character would be nice. But not going to happen any time soon, if at all.
But… what if they did extend covenants beyond the expansion? Would that change your perspective at all? If these became abilities you kept past level 60? And perhaps new covenants were released in future patches and expansions with more stylistic options?
All they really need to do is let you change covenants. Just put in a 10 minute quest to be able to change it to keep people from swapping in the middle of raids.
You can, but if for some reason one is your max potential for raids and one is max potential for mythic+ you cant go back and forth.
And for off specs you might have another on to switch to on top of that.
Faeline stomp. Stomp the ground, revealing a faeline. For MW, allies hit by your faeline have a chance to be hit by an essence font bolt. Deals 91% of attack power. 2k mana. Has a chance to reset when standing on it.
Let me break this down nice and easy. First, essence font sucks. And a single bolt is doing barely any healing unless you manage to hit a stacked raid. And the hot it leaves behind does not synergize, meaning it doesn’t offer the bonus our essence font spell gives us of double mastery procs nor does the hot get extended by rising mist. Also, this ability with a chance to reset encourages spamming it, something our mana bar already cannot sustain given we are the healer with the highest mana costs in the game.
Let’s look at it for windwalker. It…has an ability to give chi orbs and energy orbs. Which you then have to run over to pick up. And WW already struggles with being resource capped frequently because of the way their ideal rotation is set up. And finally, it also doesn’t synergize with WW’s mastery, failing to count as a unique ability so they don’t repeat abilities.
It really feels like they just threw a bunch of darts at a corkboard, and went with whatever they hit.
If the class abilities are still tied to them and still just as out of balance, I would still be upset. Mostly because as a MW in particular it feels like these add nothing to my class fantasy of being a monk and weaving with mists to restore and protect allies.
I enjoy the aesthetics. But the class abilities need to be swappable, or untied from the covenants so I’m not building abominations for 2 years just because bonedust brew duplicates and spreads my healing and costs no mana.
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This takes away from covenant identity in a way I don’t like. I like that it is a meaningful choice about your character, and I hope it lasts beyond the expansion. But that’s personal opinion, from both of us.
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10 hour questline with lots of pure grinding I’d agree with. You shouldn’t be able to sway on the fly. Earn it.
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Isn’t this somewhat of an all-or-nothing solution? Can you not imagine things being changed to bring them closer to in-balance? Are there no alternatives? Because I like the covenant identity for most of the classes I want to play. But I do want them to be better balanced.
It’s really, REALLY funny going through the list of who has the most posts in this thread. 95% of the opposition is from the same 3-5 people all near the top of that list lmao.
Those clowns have been at it for months.
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You don’t really want to engage with that player. I mean their guild is RUIN GAMING. If you don’t know who they are they just troll WPvP and try to ruin your gaming experience (as horde). The majority of their players are spam invitees who stick around to troll in game, and judging from their responses in this thread outside as well. Pretty much the lowest rung of players in the community.
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Sounds like you have identified several tunable points they could make this more compelling with.
Yeah, agree, and it’s frightening how close to release this is and these haven’t been better implemented. Though there is a delay between design and implementation, and I know they are working on balance right now. Perhaps these are already being prepared for changes. Hopefully. Or shortly after release.