That is why you should get out of your bubble more, there’s nowhere near consensus on covenants, many of us support covenants while many of you are against covenants, and the people who are against covenants because they spend time with people similar to them have made themselves believe everyone dislikes covenants.
That isnt the case.
You might want to actually post more support on the thread then. Because I can literally count on my hand the number of people who had something positive to say about that post.
Clearly you need to spend more time reading carefully because every single covenant thread had many people in support who were posting agaisnt the people who want to remove restrictions.
You keep trying to make it look like you are the majority while that is clearly not the case.
Again, put it on the main thread then. Because either those covenant threads are buried to oblivion, or you’re just projecting as much as you claim others are.
Anyway, It’s better the ripcord gets pulled after release.
It’s funny, because of the top 5 posts, 3 are pro Ripcorders (Timbo, Froom and Zoumz) and the other two are anti Ripcorders (Zul* and Sone)
*Though Zul switched to pro ripcord but he pretty much stopped posting after, so most of his posts, are still Anti-Ripcord.
Basically the opposite of a word that has gotten me banned from the forums at least twice.
Eh. I’m on the fence.
On one hand, delaying the Ripcord means that the general population comes into contact with the reality of the Covenants, and shatters the illusion and argument that Ralph and co have in that “it’s only the 1% that care about it”.
But on the other hand, implementing the Ripcord means that it never makes it live and Shadowlands stands a chance of being a REALLY good expansion, start to finish. Though the obvious downside of this, is we spend the next 4 years dealing with the narrative of “Covenants would have been cool if min-maxers hadn’t have gotten them gutted before launch”.
So it’s a patch or two of pain, vs several expansions of forum annoyance.
Goooooooooooooood.
Everything is going to plan. Let the unaware masses be blindsided by systemlands systems bloat and hard gating of covenants.
A new direction for 2021 sounds amazing to me with a new team. My spicy-ness and final form will be complete on Oct 26th.
Covenant hopping so you can have Venthyr abilities for M+ and Kyrian for PVP and Necro for Raiding is analogous to changing your character name or class each time you want to change something. Covenants are meant to be just that, something you commit to, build a relationship with, and earn rewards. It would be like me saying, ok well I want to go run M+ on this character while he is an Alliance, but in a few hours (in this hypothetical situation of only one character limit) I want to play Horde for that pvp BG, but then tonight I want to raid as Alliance so I need to change factions again. Yes, racial abilities were seen as just as “punishing” as Covs “appear” to be.
There is a reason you can change your name, appearance, and even realm yet your class is something you commit to because it defines your character. Just as covenants define your role and loyalty in SLs. Racial abilities do not define gameplay and neither will Cov abilities, they are just neat little perks for being part of that Cov. Similar to how in WoD your zone choice didn’t affect your gameplay in dungeons, raids, BGs, or anything else, they were just functional cool abilities that gave your character flavor and set it apart from others. I get that some may want to change down the road, they may get halfway through the story and change their mind or maybe they are indecisive, perhaps they just want to have a safety net there to not have the choice be final. I am cool with changing Covs on a 2-week lockout, it should be doable and not fast or easy like pressing N and changing talents. Personally, I hope Blizz sticks with the current design for Covs in regard to changing between them and keeps it that way. Lore wise it makes no sense to swear fealty to a Cov, betray them, and rejoin them in 30 minutes…that wouldn’t make much sense in a real-world situation either. This really is going to have a 0.01% impact to your ability to min-max and if that 0.01% is important enough to fight for it…well I don’t know what to tell you other then go home. If the abilities were like 30-40% damage increases or stat increases then yeah, but they aren’t they are minor perks that just give your character class and remind others of whom you are loyal to.
The idea that covenants are the equivalent to a class is just…so very wrong. At best, they are Legion’s artifact weapons, but you’re stuck with only ranking up one weapon unless you abandon your current one in a two week waiting period.
If the abilities were like 30-40% damage increases or stat increases then yeah, but they aren’t they are minor perks that just give your character class and remind others of whom you are loyal to.
You might want to look at Death Knight Night Fae, just saying.
Lore wise it makes no sense to swear fealty to a Cov, betray them, and rejoin them in 30 minutes
It really, really doesn’t. You’re the Mawwalker trying to help them all out. Swearing fealty to one is just silly.
PLEASE JUST REMOVE THE ABILITIES COMPLETELY. Why? Because…
First Off, streamers repeatedly claim to speak for the community and that drives me nuts. They don’t speak for the community, they speak for a small group of players who are watching their stream or who volunteer to take their polls. Many, more than likely, don’t even play the game and only watch the streams for entertainment.
This is an extremely hot topic right now and no, the majority are not asking to make them switchable on the fly. Most people don’t post on forums or post their opinions, they remain silent. They more than likely feel everyone else is screaming so loud their opinion won’t be heard or matter so they remain silent and patiently await blizzards release.
In reality, we all know the abilities won’t be perfectly balanced. All abilities won’t be useful in all situations. Still, people think this is an excuse to allow covenant switching on the fly (it’s not). Most importantly, it would break class fantasy and importance of choice. Also, If blizzard allowed switching covenants daily or hours, you would have groups requiring you to be specific ones for specific content, adding more to the requirements before joining certain groups. “Everyone go switch to this covenant before pull” or “go switch to this covenant because we’re doing 3s” etc. That’s stupid. Balanced or not, allowing people to switch repeatedly would add yet another “go through this checkpoint” before getting involved in other groups content.
In my personal opinion: Class fantasy should come first. If you want an ability that doesn’t do much damage, but has a cool utility effect in certain situations, then pick that. If you are a min/max player and only care about damage, pick the one that does the most damage. If I side with Ardenweald for class fantasy/theme, I don’t want to be using a Necrolord ability. You should NOT be able to say “well today, I wanna be necrolord for raid, then after raid I will switch to kyrian for my arenas.” People should just pick their covenant based on theme and appearance.
If they remove the abilities from the covenants and just allow xmog and appearance things it will fix the majority of issues. and no, I don’t want to be Necrolord using a Kyrian ability either 
#pulltheripcord, we will never be silenced.
I have a feeling you haven’t been paying attention to the beta. Because these aren’t minor perk in the slightest. They account for a huge portion of your power and in some cases such as DK Night Fea is just clearly the way to go by a long shot.
There is no ripcord.
Just like all the tantrums of the past it will fade away at some when people find the next thing to be outraged about.
They do speak for a large portion of the community. Even if there are people who don’t play the game, they might be looking to get back into it or buy it for the first time. So it’s not great that the main feature of the expansion is more of a pain than a feature and that the devs are ignoring massive feedback from alpha/beta testers.
Even if someone remains silent, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they want a bad system either.
Yep pretty much everyone is agreed on the fact that we have 0 faith in Blizz actually balancing this mess.
Switching them on the fly would’ve been a fine solution though. There is nothing inherently class fantasy related about covenants. You could rename Spear of Bastion to Spear of Necrolords and change the color to green, without missing a beat.
Covenants are not classes, not even close. This is the narrative that Blizz is pushing but it’s not true whatsoever in the game. If you jump on beta and actually play it, then you’d see that. They are more elaborate reputations with talents attached to them.
If anything covenants cause homogenization and reduce class identity. Isn’t a Paladin supposed to be a slow hard hitting warrior of the light, according to Blizz class fantasy? How are we enhancing class fantasy by allowing Paladins to turn into foxes with sprints and teleports?? Honestly, it’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard and I can’t believe people are falling for it.
Removing them is fine. The aesthetics are what most people want. The abilities are pretty bland and just cause problems. Lots of people were asking for that near the beginning but it’s probably far too late for that now and Blizz is stubborn, to the point of our collective detriment.
Ion’s update basically misrepresented community feedback as an excuse to why they’re not pulling the ripcord. No one asked for covenant abilities and soulbinds to be separated in the first place, we know how they work. They simply needed to allow them to be switchable without a ceremony, like the talents that they are.
#pulltheripcord
Let’s not forget this guy has a degree in law. He knows how to choose his words carefully to get the point across.
I don’t recall him actually saying there is no ripcord.
He just said a few things connecting soublinds and covenant abilities and let our imaginations fill in the blanks. We could still have a ripcord just not in 9.0.2
Just posting a daily reminder that some of us continue to support covenants as they are. Leave the ripcord alone.
Just posting a daily reminder that some of us continue to not support covenants as they are. To hell with a ripcord, the entire thing should be trashed.
But, but… what about the xmogs?!
I think we’ve found the “haven’t seen anything from Shadowlands or the Beta, but I still love talking out of my rear” kind of guy.