Pugs vs Premade can still be fun, if

[Ariaenne-saurfang]

Among the discussions suggesting otherwise, I’d like to highlight that fun games are still possible — rare as it may be. Some of you might already know my stance on this, and don’t worry, that hasn’t changed.

While the premade situation isn’t ideal, a Pugs vs. Premade match can still be enjoyable. This Ashran is one of the great examples. It took place a few months ago, and since it was only a partial premade with everyone still gearing up, both sides felt fairly balanced.

My goal is to show that, under the right conditions, a Pugs vs. Premade match can feel just like any other Pugs vs. Pugs match. If we can identify these conditions, maybe games like this can happen more often for everyone. Please share your idea below.

Anyway, take a look and enjoy~

https://youtu.be/Px6GAICRF64

[edit]
Highlight important info.

[Soulpriest-gurubashi]

so one out of thousands was enjoyable because the pugs put up a good fight?
i think for the most of us its just the idea that people who are blatantly cheating
get away with it. legit pvp players just want it out of the game so new players coming in and get to experience a new game play without getting curb stomped by people who have manipulated the que system to stack the odds in overwhelming favour. aka blatant filthy cheating

[Lastarria-moon-guard]

@Ariaenne-saurfang

Please share your idea below.

Stop the queue syncing.

[Fritzthecat-dethecus]

wait…… so me saying pug groups can beat premades if they stop giving up after the first teamfight is the truth?

can you go back and delete every response to me saying this?
that would be great.

[Kaan-echo-isles]

… and since it was only a partial premade with everyone still gearing up

I bolded why it was a balanced fight.

[Soulpriest-gurubashi]

look, theres just no way to minimalize this…people who que synch are filthy cheaters. they are the lowest of the low in the pvp realm. they arent legit pvp players. putting lipstick on a pig doesnt change the fact its still a pig

[Silverbolt-shadowmoon (Silverbolt)]

They should add mini quests to every epic bg, so that at least you can get something out while getting stomped.

[Cylancer-area-52]

@Ariaenne-saurfang

it was only a partial premade with everyone still gearing up

pretty important note right there

[Torturekilla-bleeding-hollow]

That was a good match. Also old. I love close matches.

[Snowcrest-cenarius]

@Silverbolt-shadowmoon

They should add mini quests to every epic bg, so that at least you can get something out while getting stomped.

That’s not a bad idea. There’s a few now but they’re very outdated.

Because as it stands, it’s more efficient for you to just leave and do something else.

[Psiloscytho-living-flame]

Do you use your friendly unit frames when healing big fights, since it mostly seemed like you were just using your grid to pick targets?

Like its whatever, hpriest is probably the most designed for that gameplay decision (pres being an example of the least), but I’m curious why you don’t use enemy frames as well? Like you have a better sense to know when to follow a push up than a lot of healers, but if you had enemy frames up you’d gain like a second or two noticing when the enemy is pulling off so you can anticipate the melee on your side adjusting, instead of reacting to range markers which priests already have a huge handicap regarding catching up via mobility.

It does bloat your screen having both up, but you can definitely tweak it so the enemy markers are less intrusive / get in the way, or just setting the toggle keybind to something more convenient so when your team is fairly safe you just tap enemy frames to get a sense of what the other team is doing, move up, once it clashes again tap it off.

The frames you have on the right seem to serve a different purpose than fight positioning, like knowing a typical threat is within range, but if they’re on the left or right side of a fight its easier to adjust if they start watching you instead of just becoming paranoid every time the right side shows them within targeting range.

[Moodwings-stormrage]

Anyone else remember when you could open the scoreboard and have everyone mass report the enemy player leader and get them kicked out the bg lol. I do, good times.

Players Abusing Mass Report/Auto Suspension System in WSG

Just saw this happen in our WSG game, but horde teams are mass reporting FC players on alliance in order to disconnect them, have them drop flag, and remove them from the BG. We were winning our game 1/3 against a horde team, and then suddenly our FC disconnected mid run and he messaged us on discord that he received a 48 hour suspension for inappropriate name (note his name is Droodcarry). This is the 2nd time this has happened to him in the middle of WSG, and his previous 24 hour suspension w…

Seems like blizzard forgot to turn that off for SoD lol…

Check it out Enfers. 3 years ago almost lol…

@Çharming-stormrage

True.

They just don’t really want to spend the money on moderation staff so they have by and large left moderation in the hands of the players and what a mistake its been.

from silences and all the way up to suspensions and bans can be handed out by mass reports the only 2 things blizzard themselves actually look at the evidence before acting on is suspensions and bans. (thankfully)

pretty sure in classic wow at 1 point they tried to leave the moderation system entirely in the hands of the players by giving them the power to ban and suspend players by just mass reporting and of course naturally it was a disaster and they walked it back.

You had well performing players in bgs just getting disconnected and banned mid game cause the whole enemy team reported them.

I hate to say it i really do but the community on this game is not the host of angels blizzard would like to imagine it is. From the blood plague in classic to the zombie thing in wrath the players have very clearly demonstrated that if you have a system that can be abused they will find a way to do it and grief other people.

[Lastarria-moon-guard]

@Silverbolt-shadowmoon

They should add mini quests to every epic bg

Play a rogue and every epic BG is a horde assassination mini quest. Its fun even the crappy premade games.

[Ariaenne-saurfang]

Thanks for everyone’s great comment and sorry for not responding earlier Would also appreciate any suggestion to solve the ‘disappearance of forum character’ issue…

@Soulpriest-gurubashi

its just the idea that people who are blatantly cheating get away with it.

I understand and respect that And I think Blizz should clarify so people are on the same page with the regulation understanding. However, we don’t know what Blizz would do, therefore my goal here is to explore ways to balance the match for PUGs (and really, Premade too) if Blizzard chooses to support large organized groups in random Epic BG. Btw I quite enjoy Malroze’s discussion here.

@Fritzthecat-dethecus

if they stop giving up after the first teamfight is the truth?

Lol, not giving up is only the first step and Most of our videos are all about this exact message. However, it takes time for mutual trust to develop in a PUG group, and the result would significantly impact people’s responses to strong opponents and failures. This needs to be worked on more.

@Kaan-echo-isles

I bolded why it was a balanced fight.

@Cylancer-area-52

pretty important note right there

@Lastarria-moon-guard

Stop the queue syncing.

Thanks for highlighting the important info

I think banning Q-sync Premade or separating them (from Pugs) might be simple but not without problems and options to deliver balanced matches should be considered too, particularly when the chance of Blizz promoting large-size premade more is there.

Some of Premade’s advantages could be hard to overcome but narrowing the gap should be possible. Maybe a size restriction could be used? As shown, a partial premade (of 2~3 groups only) should be possible for Pugs, and one of our old videos is another example of many we experienced if people need more proof. While it’s a little extreme, I like the idea of equalised gears (only) for Epic BG but lets players freely reallocate stats from a fixed budget. Also, redesigning the battleground making them DPS-only could potentially make the fight much more strategic, and may help balance.

@Torturekilla-bleeding-hollow

Also old. I love close matches.

Precisely the reason we picked this fight Btw we messed up badly during that fight but that’s why Pugs games are unpredictable and fun. The most significant takeaway from these fights is perhaps the new friendships formed afterwards.

@Psiloscytho-living-flame

Do you use your friendly unit frames when healing big fights, since it mostly seemed like you were just using your grid to pick targets?

Err… for me this choice is more instinctive and also highly situational. Watching it again myself it seems that the raid frame is used all the time, I guess because it feels more natural with my trackball & trackpad, and is easier for planning as well. But occasionally I would use unit frames (I assume you meant nameplates?) directly if selecting that specific target is easier and urgent. As for enemy frames, just like you pointed out, I turn it on only when needed - mainly because it would make the game very choppy (no idea why). Lol, most of the time I was only thinking what I want to do, and my body will go figure out how to make it happen, maybe ? ←

Oh, and the frame list on the right (battleground enemy) is only for viewers which I hardly used for anything

@Lastarria-moon-guard

Play a rogue and every epic BG is a horde assassination mini quest.

[Lastarria-moon-guard]

@Ariaenne-saurfang

Maybe a size restriction could be used?

There is already a size restriction of 5 players.

[Ariaenne-saurfang]

@Lastarria-moon-guard

already a size restriction of 5 players

And it still couldnt stop people bringing large group in, and in turn causing new problem like shorthanded team because of all the queue dropping. Also, I think Blizz doesnt want to stamp out premades, while this is not ideal for pugs, it would be natural to look for other options.

[Moodwings-stormrage]

Randomize the queue. If your account pops horde, its flag to always be horde until a bg is completed to stop alt hopping/scouting. Account wide deserter stacking 5x starting at 15min. If you reach the 5x, its a daily lockout suspension until server reset next day.

[Ariaenne-saurfang]

Nice idea! Could you add this to Malroze’s discussion too?

@Moodwings-stormrage

Account wide deserter stacking

I assume you meant this happens when people drop queue?

[Moodwings-stormrage]

Yes. Its for the people who like to use the excuse of “i had to get a drink” “use the restroom” “answer the door” okay cool, well you get 4 more tries for today then you are suspended until tomorrows reset.

[Ariaenne-saurfang]

Slightly related and perhaps my memory is wrong, I recall a comment from Torturekilla that their groups are now self-sufficient, meaning if they are each queued into a different game individually group would still be able to fight on.

IF my above understanding is correct - I like this a lot, and believe more PvP communities should do the same, no need for dropping queue and let the game’s Random system do its work. Roam with a full raid-group is fun, but fighting your friends can be just as fun if not more!