Prot Warrior Nerfed hard - prot pally not touched?

In Development Undermine(d) PTR Discussion
61

If dungeons design was not forcing certain classes to be meta. You would be right, but our stun doesn’t count for reset inner cooldown. So one way they can allow Tank meta to have more diversity is by deleting that rework they did into kicks and stops (or stuns) not affecting to inner cooldown abilities.

And yea, our stun is amazing, and the dispel, but as said, dungeon design issues. Pala for ex. can dispel himself, use sacrifice on an ally for dispell and even if he doesn’t dispell himself he can do it on healer cause his mastery reduces damage from DoT effects.

Im going to talk about my experience as tank, is not a worth talent to take. Just for Necrotic Wake if there’s no other one that can disenrage. It’s a disenrage every 30-45 seconds, which turns out not to be worth on pulls where there’s a mob who enrages cause its value as a stop on current M+ situation is higher.

So most times is more valuable to use paralysis (Cause disenrage is just an added effect for paralysis) as a stop than as a disenrage. One way to fix that would be to change that talent into something like (If Paralyze is used to dispell enrage, its CD reduces 20s, which would end on a 10s CD for disenrage if have the base CDR talent or 25s if not.

62

Look, just because you don’t think it’s worth it does not mean it’s never a consideration when building up a group that’s potentially missing key utility or that it’s never not a helpful option to have since tanks should do everything in their ability to pickup as much utility that they can feasibly obtain to make runs smoother for the group as a whole.

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I think a bigger issue then tank balance this season is just the sheer amount of tank busters.

Then you have 7 out of 8 dungeons having poison/curses which naturally leans towards tanks with cleanses.

64

Refining fire needs to go.

65

Returning to the main topic question, blizzard devs set a trap for themselves. It is very common to see each first tier. Certain classes are being smashed because of low ilvl gear, people trying new things, and a general lack of dungeon knowledge. Therefore certain ‘buffs’ are implemented and when the gear comes - X class becomes much better at dealing with the incoming and dealing damage. We all know that at start of each Xpack warrior will excel vs the rest because of the block but then slowly but surely falls back.

If the tank can survive the same thing and deal the same damage, then you look at utility. I could say it would have been a fair play IF all tanks had a variety of utilities to bring into the group. That is not the case here though.

The favored tank, the protection paladin here, now suddenly deals the most damage and can survive the same amount of damage as any other tank. On top of that brings way more utility to survive the key that 85% of people won’t even do, but the perception of the community will say - this is the tank I need. If you have a tank that does:

  • best damage
  • can survive the same
  • can interrupt more than once or can interrupt whole pack at will (1min CD!!!)
  • have strong ST stun (duration)
  • Can Lay of Hands a person to full HP
  • Can put 30% DR on someone with 1min CD (just how!?)
  • bring Freedom, Remove Poison/Disease or BoProt
  • Can put Blessing of Spellwarding on to make someone immune to magic/effects\

How can you blame the community for not wanting such a tank to tank their keys? :smiley:

Other tanks won’t bring much to your party (maybe DH is closer to mob control than the rest but that’s it).

  • DH buff? Sigils?
  • Blood grip? Healer can afk on tank heals?
  • Warrior getting more stable damage (outside of bleeds/magic) and BS for AP classes
  • Monk with physical and ring?

And now you think the warrior community will be fine with nerfing warrior DAMAGE, survivability, and making the spec just slow and unfun? Like where is the common sense here? I would get it if they gutted some of Paladin’s utility and damage down, but there is literally nothing, and on top of that, you have 4-set story…

Leave Paladins as they are, but make OTHER tanks, yes all of them filled with some extra utility, damage up, and make everyone have some fun. A lot of us hate this meta-chasing thing to ‘go play other class while OP’. I want to play warrior and warrior only.

I not going to talk about the other specs/classes as they should make their own plea, but for warrior I would like to see:

  • Vigilance back, 20% DR on user (and we don’t take their damage), taunt is refreshed if user is hit
  • Grip via Ravager, deals less damage but grips everyone into the fray of blades
  • Intervene to intercept spells as it was done but taken!
  • Ability to get to Piercing Howl and Bitter Immunity without losing vital talents, too much ‘required’ talents there
6 Likes
66

This was for sure the main source of the damage buff, but was nerfed like 2 weeks after the buffs.

67

It’s still way too strong even after the nerfs. It’s the reason why Prot paladin is the only tank being used above 17 — being able to do 5m burst DPS on large packs every minute with Divine Toll while every other tanks caps out at around 2m is a big problem.

I’d say it’s a matter of “fourth DPS” but they’re literally doing more damage than the DPS lol.

And honestly, having a tank do a lot of DPS can be balanced by them having much lower utility and survival. It’s the triangle. DPS, Utility, Survivability except other tanks get to pick one while Prot Paladins get to pick all three.

3 Likes
68

No they are not.

2 out of 3

69

Agreed,
I also would love having intervene automatically cast spell reflect on behalf of the target, that alone would go a long way to giving all three warrior specs some real utility.
But yea, easy fixes:

  1. And I cannot stress this one enough, disrupting shout cost ONE talent instead of two, challenging shout should be baseline, and in addition, disrupting shout should be a SILENCE, whether the mob is currently casting or not.
  2. Intervene should automatically cast spell reflect on behalf of the target if available, make it an extra talent point, this should work for all three specs.
  3. Rally needs to be changed from a 10% health pool buff to a flat 10% DR buff -or- 10% healing taken buff
  4. Clean up the class tree so that we can actually take our utility talents without sacrificing our viability.
  5. Revert the bounding stride nerf and give us back two charges. Nobody cares how it affects pvp since it can be altered for pvp
  6. The rage changes are fine, it is difficult to even use revenge because of its low dmg and ss/tc always being available and better. That being said, revenge is a useless, redundant ability. It should be replaced with whirlwind and slam. Seriously, anytime the word revenge is used in the talent/ability tree, replace it with the words whirlwind and slam.
1 Like
70

INteresting ideas, however, the rage changes are not fine, due to the effect the nerfs have on SS resets - and the CDR on avatar, etc etc. they are attacking the fundamental core of the gameplay loop.

your other points are awesome - love em!

1 Like
71

Not as much as before. It’s terrifying healing a blood dk. Good ones are unlikable, bad ones die setting up a pull and the average one yo yos from the brink of death every other GCD.

1 Like
72

Hoping Blizzard makes at least an official post asking for feedback - this is ridiculous, any tester on PTR can tell you warrior is not workin!

2 Likes
73

Good luck, the dev’s just stick their head in the sand and ignore feedback before having to walk their changes back the next expansion.

Has happened for ages.

1 Like
74

The point still stands, because of the current state of mythic+, how it has been built by developers, the way tanks have been manipulated by said developers has all led to an irrevocable conclusion THIS season which clearly, as the data clearly indicates, has made the prot paladin heads and shoulders above all other tank specs.

I am particularly NOT hating that and I have advocated to leave the prot paladin alone, NOT to nerf it because its doing better, but instead to improve the other tank specs so they can perform just as good as the paladin within their respective class. I am certainly NOT saying make all tanks the same, that would be dumb and boring.

So then these developers go on to significantly nerf a tank spec which was not the top tank… Like, what???

I’d like to point out though that this community of gamers really sucks though. The greater majority of players I encounter are absolutely nasty to each other, treat each other with contempt, animosity is always in their mouths and their tongues are the tongues of vipers.

This is NOT what our community should be like!

If we have differences in opinions we can clearly and respectfully object with each other and find “the Truth” through tlthe exchange of ideas and through dialogue.

Why tear each other apart because we disagree… Really???

There is only 1 mythic+ community and we are all in it, would it not be better for all of us to treat each other with some gentleness and kindness…

And to boot, we are the Tanks! The players with the heaviest weight of responsibilities to carry around in the entire game. We ought to be the example to our community and be the very best we can be to each other.

Wouldn’t we want ALL tanks to succeed??!!

1 Like
75

Revenge may be useless for Thane builds but it hits like a truck for Colossus builds

76

All the data points to the tank meta distribution being no different than any other season.

I agree with this. Unfortunately people lead with emotional arguments when data is presented that counters their opinions and viewpoints. I’ve stated many times that they need to balance tanks better and especially BM. The areas I get into arguments about are when people come in here demanding Prot Pal nerfs and rationalizing it by misrepresenting data or the class.

1 Like
77

Nope, anyone advocating for protection paladin nerfs is part of the problem and not the solution.

Not sure why most people can’t seem to understand this.

Envy and jealousy I suppose.

2 Likes
78

Let me word this differently.

The reason why paladin is the meta tank currently is not because its an overpowered god tank. I still get globaled on my prot pally on anything >10+ if I don’t have the right CDs up orwe accidentally pull too many.

The reason the paladin is doing so much better than the rest is because the rest just plainly suck! The problem is not the paladin, the problem is how terrible the other tank specs are performing. That’s what should be addressed.

In Blizzard’s infinite wisdom they decided to make a season of deadly spell casters and intensive tank busters which, by nature of its class abilities, allowed the prot pally to shine while the rest just plainly suck.

79

Thats clearly not true.

h ttps://mythicstats.com/meta?expansion=all

The column on the right shows spec diversity, with red being an unbalanced season, and green being relatively balanced. In TWW S1 we see very poor balance, on par with DF S3/S4 when it was VDH at the top.

Also note that this is broken out on a week-to-week basis. Top 2000 basically means title range, which is where balance actually matters – Below +12 everyone is viable because the content is so easy at this point in the season.

And if you look at DF S4 specifically, the point where VDH was nerfed made a huge difference for spec balance/distribution. VDH was still the top tank but every other tank surged in popularity/usage.

80

It is and I showed comparisons for this season compared to DF S4 and DF S3. The distribution is keeping up with the norm.