Hello,
Browsing the changes to warrior - for tanking - our survivability is heavily nerfed - changing our rage gen messes with the CDR baked into the spec - especially with Shield block uptime.
These changes need to be looked at again, in depth.
How can these changes to warrior be happening, while prot pally, the only meta tank this season, has no changes? it is completely ridiculous.
Blizzard - do you have any idea what it’s like playing the off-meta tank? 4 seasons now and tank balance is completely in the dumpster.
Super concerned about these changes. Really come across as changes that there architected during the first 3-4 weeks of TWW S1 before prot paladin replaced warrior.
These rage generation/SS reset nerfs have many 2nd order effects that don’t seem to be accounted for at all-- namely sb uptime, Avatar usage/uptime, indom healing, ect.
Are you completely glancing over Warrior being meta for the first 2/3 of the season? You also don’t seem to comprehend what’s making Paladins meta. It’s not the mitigation, it’s the damage.
Paladin was obviously going to be meta even before the 10.0.5 changes went live. And it is DEFINITELY the mitigation. No tank can deal with trash mob tank busters as easily as ppal. Bubble on a ~90sec CD, cheat death about every minute, another 50% Dr pseudo-cheat on a 45 sec CD, AND spellwarding?
Let’s not be disingenuous, it is a crazy combination of damage and mitigation, and no other tank mitigates as well as a paladin lol. Between Strength in Adversity and Faith in the Light they literally have both the best of pwar and VDH in passive tankiness. Oh, and then I end dungeons with 50+ interrupts too lol.
You clearly were not around before 10.0.5 then. Paladins were bottom next to BM in representation. In terms of pre-patch discussions it was dominated by doomers.
It isn’t because of mitigation. They gave us a mild increase in mitigation tuning. The large majority of the patch was centered around DPS which was nerfed the following patch.
~2-2.5 Minutes.
We had this pre-.0.5 except the CD was longer.
If you are talking about Ardent Defender, this has a 8 second uptime.
We had this pre-.0.5
It’s not a cheat death, you can get one shot with the talent off CD.
We had this pre-.0.5
We had this pre-.0.5
90% of the things you listed are things we had pre-patch. Who’s the one being disingenuous? You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.’
Actually, Warriors are at the top in terms of mitigation. You have Ignore Pain without CD for 50% dmg reduction while our 50% is on a 5 minute CD. AD, EoT are 20-25% for 6-8 seconds with a 1-2 minute CD.
I think you’re also forgetting Paladin’s Utility it also provides to the group. A lot of interrupts, Freedom, Cleanse, and others. Prot Paladin has the damage, and utilty. Prot Warrior largely only has its mitigation to give it a leg up.
All of the utility was there before the patch while we were bottom representation. It’s the damage. Top key runners need the damage which is why it’s consistently the tank that does the most damage, the healer that does the most damage, and dps that forms the meta.
That’s why we saw a shift from Shaman healer to Disc Priest and Warrior tank to Paladin post patch. Our DPS went from ~800k to ~1.3mil.
You missed my point. Prot Warrior atm largely only brings strong mitigation to groups. Prot Warrior’s damage profile is lack luster, and its utility is abysmal compared to all of the other tanks.
Prot Paladin on the other hand doesn’t have this issue. It has damage, mitigation, and utility all tied together. It’s not just “Damage”, because if that was the case we’d have seen attempts to make Colossus Protection Warrior work in higher keys (hint this hasn’t happened).
No, we saw this shift because Discipline has double Pain Supression. With all of the tank busters (that were only nerfed this week) in S1 this made living easier on tanks.
I didn’t miss your point. Warriors were THE meta for 2 months while Paladins had all of the same utilities and mitigation pre and post patch. We didn’t gain a lot of mitigation, it was mild. It was 100% the damage that made us meta. If it was the Utility then we wouldn’t have been bottom representation for 2 months.
We saw this shift because Paladins are still squishy and needs the Pain Suppression to cover gaps. That’s also why we bring Aug even though it’s bit of a DPS loss from bringing a 3rd full DPS.
Prot Paladins had the highest damage of any tank prior to 11.0.5. The damage isn’t the sole reason Prot Paladin became meta.
They didn’t have the same mitigation prior to 11.0.5. Prot Paladins literally gained base armor, additonal armor from Shield of the Righteous, and bonus Word of Glory. This is before all of the other talent changes, and CDR for Holy Power Builders.
You’re being extremely disingenuous about why Prot Paladin is bought to keys over Prot Warrior, and damage isn’t the only reason.
This is also wild to say when this exact thing happened in Season 1 of Dragonflight. Prot Warrior was good for a moment, changes come in and than Prot Paladin was meta until double sigil silience demon hunter became a thing.
But hey, no sweat for you right? As long as Prot Paladin is good who cares about legitimate concerns of Mitigation, Damage, and lack of utility Prot Warriors have.
Not everything is about you or how they relate to Prot Paladin. Let us have our discussions about Prot Warrior without you running into each thread and being, “Well, Prot Paladins don’t have X!” I legitimately do not care and you do nothing but distract from actual discussion about VERY LARGE mechanical changes coming to Prot Warrior.
Yeahh you’re it interested in actually discussing anything to do with this thread or any of the points you cannot nitpick.
Have a fun time on the block button.
Back on Topic…
This won’t be resolved without major changes to our utility. Prot Warrior either has to be tuned above everyone else in terms of Mitigation & Damage (which is unhealthy for Tank Balance) OR additonal utilty needs to be added to the spec.
Realistically we just need ways to grab the utility we already have in our class and spec tree. Having access to Disrupting Shout, Intimidating Shout, and others without the current sacrifices we’re asked to make would go a long way.
Also, Stormshield’s damage prevention is pitiful. A 400k shield with 6-7Million Health Pool that only prevents magic damage is crazy bad for a hero talent.
How am I the one nit picking? You are the one who engaged with me and nitpicked over damage. Got upset that you were wrong and resorting to blocking lmao. Can’t make this stuff up.
They literally are above everyone in terms of mitigation as it is. Their Ignore Pain is also getting a 30% buff for S2.
Again, their 50% mitigation has no CD. Ours is on a 5 minute CD and lasts for 8 seconds.
Clearly shows the damage difference pre-0.5 and post-0.5, but keep telling yourself that it’s not because of damage and that Prot Paladin was top DPS before.
Prot Palys are butter and require a lot of input from the healer to stay alive. If you aren’t rotating through your 4-5 defensives constantly you just fall over.
Prot Warriors in comparison are way sturdier and require far less healing to stay alive.
they specifically said they dont want warrior tanks to be able to spam their spenders. so no its not an offset its a nerf specifically to prot wars in general.