I hope you have fun on the bench
Post on your warrior Abralan
Lets see that Shadowmourne
Edit: I found his warrior, no shadowmourne / meh parses
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Yeah I pointed logs out once before to them, and normally I donât parse shame. But hiding behind an alt is just plain wrong, especially when itâs so easy to find the mains.
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Yeah I dont parse shame (my own parses arent great either)⌠but to throw this much of a stink over tiny % buffs when you arent even parsing near elite level is silly.
Iâve raided as ret in vanilla⌠where we were basically lucky to get into top 20 dps and never complained, yet this guy is sitting comfortably mid-high dps rankings⌠but because another class does more damage, its the end of the world.
You dont see shamans complaining relentlessly that both enhance and ele especially do less damage than warriors? But we all know why the warriors are mad:
Shadowmourne
Thats it, they rolled a warrior under a false assumption that they will be given priority over others just for being warriors⌠and now that rets do decent damage and have just as much claim to shadowmourne as warriors, they are mad.
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Yup. Because taking Hand of Rag, TF, and Glaives wasnât enough⌠If itâs orange and a warrior CAN equip it, they want it. And will really get mad when anyone else wants in.
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To be fair, thereâs been some great furies posting here who arenât whining.
Scarletpimp is a cool cat. Glad heâs close to his SM. Well earned and deserved. Early congrats, my dude!
Abralan and Qpon furies⌠not so much.
Instead of working on SM theyâre here whining and pushing for nerfs. Do the work and youâll get your SM. Donât need to be #1 to get the best weapon in the current expansion.
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And since absolutely 0 players have gotten Shadowmourne cause of their class and/or dps exclusively, we all know why they ainât getting it.
Their guilds think theyâre more annoying than their chosen person or that the other person is a better fit for their guild or some other arbitrary reason.
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youâre just beating up on Ele-Shaman at this point. Weâre currently below Blood. Woo⌠
Since you guys are clearly on board with buffing shamans. I invite you to evaluate some potential buffs⌠Worst class in the game asking for 400-ish DPS shouldnât be much of a non-starter. 
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Oof man. 
If I knew more about how yaâll worked Iâd make suggestions, but all I can say is best wishes and good luck brotherman.
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The irony of a level 60 trying to personally attack another player as a counter argument. I get it, the overwhelming facts prove Iâm right. Im pointing at hundreds of thousands of logs and finding that having Ret 5% ahead of warrior and Feral 12% ahead of warrior in CLASSIC is wrong, because it was from MODIFICATIONS to the game. Ret has a bigger lead over warrior on a fight light Saurfang than warrior does over elemental sham.
Ret did not need a buff. No more than warrior did. The only explanation in the face of the data was that the senior game producer played ret, therefore it deserved an âexceptionâ to the rule (per blizzard QA employee Zirene) to the no-balance rule.
Many specs or even classes worse than ret didnt get help. Currently on a lot of fights, the #1 spec is Feral, and then #3 right behind fire mage (the original #1) is Ret paladin, followed by survival.
Its a total joke and travesty that blizzard decided to buff already strong specs and classes. Paladin has been the most parsed CLASS all expansion, with warriors the least. Prot wars for a while were less than 1% of heroic ICC kills. Fury has been dumpster last place all game with almost no utility and now its middle of the pack, or with a legendary, middle-upper. It only does âdecentâ on cleave fights which isnt that many.
My position is logical. Leave the game in its classic state. Your position of arbitrary buffs for already strong specs is illogical. The devs, using yours (and their current) logic could have given warriors a massive buff and never touched ret, and weâd be in the same situation we are now, where classes that would perform adequately in ICC got buffs and then became S++ tier at the top of almost every fight and on overall.
The reason its okay for fire mages and affi locks to be at the top is because that was the original data and balance choices blizzard made. Totally reshuffling the meta so that feral and ret at the best and stackable specs is terrible and itself more than anything symbolizes the end of the classic journey. Future endeavors in this category are all private server level re-releases.
This is not the problem. Ele shaman is fine in prior tiers because of low movement. The problem is it doesnt have much to do while moving and ICC is all movement. A proper glyph for ele would be something that you can cast while moving, like having frost shock leave a dot that doesnt compete with flame shock, or something that gains damage over time as its not used. Fire mage sustains well because of how instant pyros works mostly, with fireblast and firestarter/dragonsbreath as filler potential.
Also, dont cast elemental mastery while under the effect of heroism or gloves, and you can benefit a lot more from it.
anyone can go to warcraft logs and confirm the reality of what Im saying, you pretending its not doesnt change that
we need to nerf feral, fury, fire mage. everything with âfâ, nerf
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Ghostwolf inside would be an even better solution! For quite a few of the fights, weâre out of range for frost shock.
Yes, the movement is the killer, but that affects elemental mastery even⌠we need to be casting LB/CL as often as possible to get use of our crappy tier bonus⌠unfortunately, ICC loves to have us move
Unfortunately, cannot double them again. Your clown army has died. BEGIN AGAIN! Just one to start instead of five. Reduces growth rate. Plus you donât deserve more. You are unworthy to lead the clowns.
The reason for the exception has been provided. Ret without the buffs is the worst PvE DPS spec by a solid margin across all content. You just refuse to accept it and instead fixate on âlol devs play ret!â Which they did even in vanilla classic where warriors did triple their damage.
There werenât any that could not respec into a viable DPS spec.
Yes, prot paladin should have been nerfed (ardent defender) so prot warriors werenât just a bad option.
Nothing in WCL supports what you are saying. Overall DPS between ret and warrior is between 0 and 4% depending on percentile. (The better performing the warrior, the better they do relative to ret)
As we continue gearing up, that gap is going to keep closing, because ret already has all of its big DPS spikes by now, and warrior gets more DPS per item than ret does minus the one trinket of TaJ⌠but warrior still gets the pretty insane DBW.
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any fight where you can cast the entire time, ele does just fine, but ICC has WAY more movement than ToC and it just cuts the dmg down a lot. Meanwhile mage is just spamming instant pyros and running around the whole time.
Good comparison is look at Saurfang where ele does fine versus like, Festergut which has you moving for spores. Then consider other fights like PP that make you move contantly.
THis is just objectively false and easily provable. Ret was around where fury warrior in ulduar where there was no undead mobs, no t10 4 pc, and no TAJ. Everyone knew Ret was fine. They didnt give warrior boost warrior DPS despite warrior having less utility than ret and the same dps. Now in ICC Ret is a solid 5% ahead of warrior and a top #3 spec. Should have never buffed it, as now the entire meta is reshuffled. You can deny this all you want but anyone can go right now and look. They could entirely remove the âexceptionalâ buff and ret would still be an valuable spec right now.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1020#dataset=95&boss=848
What happens when i turn it to max percentile than 95%? the warrior beats the ret, do you think it has anything to do with the top warriors in the world being fed gear which scales them over the ret because they are top warriors and not a balance problem?
Good comparison is look at Saurfang where ele does fine
Saurfang has adds that chain lightning does full damage to, its not a single target fight for them lol and they still lose
âRet is a top 3 specâ
links them in 4th, he couldnât find a top 3 (there isnât one)
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Yup. Like Iâve been saying, for Abralan! Clown King of the forums! May their Clown army grow once again!
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They also keep claiming furies are bottom tier